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Brehiri

Is it rape if...?

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Guest Nicole K.

So the other day something happened and I have so many conflicting emotions about it that I want to share, maybe help clear things up with other voices. 

I am in a loving relationship. The other night, I stayed over at a male friends house, he's gay and good friends with my boyfriend. My friend's roommate was there and even though I hadn't done drugs besides smoking weed in many years, I made the stupid choice to do some cocaine. It was all in all a fun night, low key and chill. In the early morning I was falling asleep on the couch when my friend's roommate (who knows I'm in a relationship and has met my partner) started taking down my underwear and putting his fingers inside me. It's all so fuzzy, I was so tired and had also been drinking. I told him no, and he stopped for a moment, and then tried again. As far as I know, nothing happened beyond that. That's all I remember before waking up that afternoon. 

I feel like I cheated on my boyfriend. I feel like I lead the other guy on, maybe I was too friendly or something. I haven't told my boyfriend yet and I think it's for reasons I'm posting here. I'm of two minds:

 

1. I don't want him to freak out. I'm so worried that if he confronts the guy, he'll find out I was doing drugs and I really don't want him to think less of me for that.

2. I'm worried that he'll say it's no big deal and I'll feel like I'm making a big deal out of nothing. 

 

I can't stop fixating on what happened but at the same time there's a part of me that says it's no big deal and just move on. I'm so confused.

I would welcome any and all thoughts and advice. Thank you wonderful people !

 

 

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mbholly

Hi Nicole,

I am sorry this happened. You did not consent and what happened was not your fault. I don’t think you are overreacting at all. You could reach out to your local rape crisis center for some support.

It can be hard to make a decision about disclosing abuse to a loved one. If you do tell, I hope you get the support you deserve.

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Guest questioning

I think I know the answer... but i need to put this somewhere... just get this out of my mind and not all bottled up.   i think this is going to be long and complicated, and for that i am sorry.  

is it rape if we're married but haven't had sex in months... until one night i get fall down drunk (while you're still sober)?  You got on top of me after I had fallen down and started kissing me. when was the last time we kissed?  june? is it rape if i asked you to give me a back rub and then you took it farther (the menthol from the icy hot you used on my back burned once your hands went elsewhere)?  You said we didn't have to do anything if i didn't want to, but every time i tried to sit up, you would pull me back down.  Is it rape if i didn't say no (at least that I remember???)?  If I had an orgasm? If i reminded you to get a condom? If you've been so supportive of my healing process from CSA?  If I got drunk again and the same thing happened the next night?

i think maybe you just didn't know better. We're married after all. I was drunk and should have known better, too.

Is it rape if he doesn't know? Should he have known? Am I just overreacting?

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Susan

Yes, you can be raped by your spouse. Sounds like you were saying no by trying to get up and get away? You are not able to consent if drunk or under the influence of drugs. Our bodies don't know the difference between good or bad touch - they respond to stimulation so orgasms are possible during rape. I'm sorry he doesn't show you the respect you deserve! I suggest you try explaining how it makes you feel when he does this while your drunk. If he's been supportive of your healing from CSA then he should be able to understand. Sending you strength and much care!

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3kidsandaheadache
On 6/12/2017 at 8:51 AM, glitterandcupcakes said:

I am not arguing I seriously need to know, how is it rape of you say yes but don't really want to because they manipulate, nag, coerce, make you feel it's your duty?

 

According to my Google search result (I can't figure out what the actual url is), one definition for *force* is "coercion or compulsion, especially with the use or threat of violence." Imagine if you were fighting a person off and they keep fighting until you are too tired to fight anymore; that is force. If someone works at you over and over until you finally give in because you can't fight it anymore, that is force too. I had a boyfriend in high school who nagged and nagged me. Looking back I am surprised that I got up and left instead of giving in. It was probably because we had only been dating a few weeks and I didn't feel invested in the relationship. I did sit in his living room and fall asleep and then pretend to be asleep when he started touching me in an intimate way. I moved so that he removed his hands but I was too scared to get up and leave or tell him to stop touching me. Anyway, the truth about manipulation and coercion was hard for me grasp at first. We are inundated with messages telling us that the only rape victim is the person who screams and fights the whole time. Just looking around Pandy's it's obvious how many of us question whether what was done to us was assault. I'm so thankful for this site and all of the people on here who validate each other. 

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3kidsandaheadache
On 10/7/2018 at 10:53 AM, Guest questioning said:

I think I know the answer... but i need to put this somewhere... just get this out of my mind and not all bottled up.   i think this is going to be long and complicated, and for that i am sorry.  

is it rape if we're married but haven't had sex in months... until one night i get fall down drunk (while you're still sober)?  You got on top of me after I had fallen down and started kissing me. when was the last time we kissed?  june? is it rape if i asked you to give me a back rub and then you took it farther (the menthol from the icy hot you used on my back burned once your hands went elsewhere)?  You said we didn't have to do anything if i didn't want to, but every time i tried to sit up, you would pull me back down.  Is it rape if i didn't say no (at least that I remember???)?  If I had an orgasm? If i reminded you to get a condom? If you've been so supportive of my healing process from CSA?  If I got drunk again and the same thing happened the next night?

i think maybe you just didn't know better. We're married after all. I was drunk and should have known better, too.

Is it rape if he doesn't know? Should he have known? Am I just overreacting?

It was rape. I'm so sorry he did those things to you. 

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Guest agurl

Hello. This is my first post and Im not sure exactly how it all works. Im feeling a little uncomfortable about even talking about it and if I should talk about the person in front of me or the proper ettiquette but im dealing with some stuff and I guess it fits here. My situation I feel like I set myself up. I feel like I should have known better. I try to tell myself it never happened I misunderstood I was to drunk. But for it to cross my mind everyday for the last 8 plus years im just feeling like thats alot for a situation that didnt happen. I wanted to be cool I wanted to impress a guy and I drank way to much I thought we were both drinking but when I took his cup bc I was out I realized it was juice. I was instantly alert to that but I didnt say anything I was scared. I was already to the point of stumbling and falling down. He was a kid of some family my family was friends with. I never expected anything bad. He had been fighting with his gf I thought he was cute. I had my own agenda at first. I wanted to hang out. Then I ended up in a lie of a drinking contest by myself. His gf kept calling I will never forget that. She had a special ringtone he mentioned earlier how oh shes psycho thats only her ringtone ignore it. I was psyshically just done. Thats why I want to believe I misunderstood. To be that drunk and to remember what I do makes no sense. He got on top of me I couldnt do anything I just said no and he put his hand over my mouth and said shh youll like it. He did what he did. Then that ringtone just over and over. I dont remember anything other than that really. I know I wasnt beat. I know I wasnt physically really hurt. I drank and I was attracted to him thats why I even hung out with him. I dont feel like I should have these issues yesrs later. I consider myself to be lucky because I didnt go through what other people have as sick as that sounds. I really tell myself some stuff. I just feel like it should go away or it didnt happen or I asked for it in someway but everytime I start down that path I remember the gut punch i felt when i tasted the juice and I knew something was wrong. He didnt want us on equal playing fields for some reason and I knew he drank I had seen him in plenty of social settings. So if all the stuff I want to feed myself is true then why does that fear stick out so much. I really struggle with calling myself a survivor or victim or anything. When I see psychiatrist I wont talk about. I drop this little bombshell and wont talk about it. I want to discuss all the other issues and if they keep coming back to that I will just quit going. I never spoke his name or saw him again or did anything. I didnt tell anyone for years actually the first time it ever came up is when I was dealing with my drug issues. I went off the deepend bad after that. Truthfully  I look back at that time and I think he made me feel worthless. So I really began to treat myself pretty worthless. I had no self respect after that which is also really contradictory to how I feel like I should have reacted after that situation. And overall with my rant if you cant tell im just struggling. And Im tired. Im so tired of the anxiety and the memories and I really thought it would go away. It wasnt that bad I slept with plenty people all these things i tell myself. And its still in my head everyday and I dont know where it stops or how to go another direction. I can talk about it right now because you all dont know me but looking someone in the eye and saying it. Id rather call myself a liar all day long like I have but its not making anything better. I feel so lost and trapped at the same time. I need help trying to accept or idk what really. 

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Susan

Hi agurl,

I hope you go ahead and complete your registration. You deserve all the support you can get!

You were already impaired when you drank his juice - he planned it this way except possibly you learning he was only drinking juice. I'm so sorry. None of us really wants to experience the pain from examining the truth of what happened. Sounds like you self medicated with drugs to avoid the pain. You were raped hon. He knew beforehand what he was going to do. Sick bastard angry with girlfriend. I do hope you can discuss this further with your therapist. We're here if you'd like to share with us. You are not alone!

:hug::hug::hug:

Peace to you,

Susan

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Guest Guest

Hello. I don't even know if I should be posting this year, but this is something that I am struggling with.

I have experienced CSA, and my ex knew about it. However, he would restrain my hands when he wanted intimacy and I was not able to and then he would tell me I am not good enough because I could not fulfill my duties towards him

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mbholly

I am sorry you are struggling. Your ex was so wrong to treat you in that way. Feeling a duty for intimacy can be so complicated, but you have a right to your boundaries. You did nothing wrong. I am sorry you were hurt.

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Guest AnnieSweets
On 6/12/2017 at 11:13 AM, Brehiri said:

If it "only" happened once, it is still rape.

If s/he didn't have a weapon, and you say no, or don't say no, it is still rape.

If s/he didn't hit you or otherwise injure you, it is still rape.

If you are wearing the shortest skirt and the highest heels and s/he has sex with you, and you don't want it, it is still rape.

If you were absolutely butt naked, and s/he has sex with you against your will, it is still rape.

If you consented to sex 100 times, and didn't consent the 101st time, it is still rape.

If you didn't say yes and you didn't say no, it is still rape.

If it "only" happened once, it is still rape.

If you were drunk or high, it is still rape.

If s/he gets you drunk or high and has sex with you, it is still rape.

If you are a prostitute and you say "no", it is still rape.

If you were unconscious  and s/he had sex with you, it is still rape.

If you were sick and didn't have the strength to say no or fight them off, it is still rape.

If you "led him/her on" and you didn't want sex and s/he continues, it is still rape.

If it was anal, vaginal, oral or digital, it is still rape.

If you were a child, it is still rape. A child cannot consent.

If s/he is your spouse, and you didn't want sex, it is still rape.

If it is your wedding night and you don't want to have sex but s/he pressures you anyway, it is still rape.

If you "consented" enthusiastically because you were scared, it is still rape.

If s/he pressured into sex you because s/he spent money on you, it is still rape.

If you were incapacitated in any way and s/he has sex with you, it is still rape.

If you were unable to say "yes" in any way, it is still rape.

If s/he acted in a threatening way and you agreed to sex, it is still rape.

If s/he nagged you until you gave in and said yes, it is still rape.

If s/he talked you into it  and you eventually say yes, it is still rape.

If s/he said "If you loved me you would do it"  or "everyone else is doing it" to manipulate you, it is still rape.

If you had sex because you were scared of what would happen if you didn't, it is still rape.

If you froze, it is still rape.

If s/he keeps waking you up to ask for sex until you give in it is still rape.

If you were asleep and s/he has sex with you, it is still rape.

If you said "yes" to sex with a condom and s/he removes that condom or it breaks and s/he doesn't tell you, and continues, it is still rape.

If you change your mind at any point for any reason, and s/he doesn't back off IMMEDIATELY, it is still rape.

If you consented to one sexual act but not another, and s/he does another act to you or makes you do another act, it is still rape.

If s/he refuses to stop having sex for any reason, it is still rape.

If s/he is your friend, husband, wife, boyfriend or girlfriend and you didn't want sex, it is still rape.

If s/he is your friend with benefits and you didn't want sex, it is still rape.

If you had sex with them the night before, and don't want to again the next morning, and s/he makes you anyway, it is still rape.

If s/he buys you items, dinner or movie tickets, that does not entitle them to sex and if they use that as leverage to manipulate you, it is still rape.

This really connected with me... I need some advice still though if anyone wants to give their honest opinion... If I was the one to initiate kissing but was too drunk to say no to anything else that happened, and they were very drunk too, is it still rape? Am I a bad person that I let this go so far with someone who is supposed to be my best friend and not my significant other? I feel like such a bad person and so trapped by this because I just wish it never happened. I only even remember parts of it and it haunts me... It has been okay for me to kiss my friends while intoxicated before but this... Its so much to handle, it weighs on my every thought and I want to scream but cant. And I still adore my friend, I know they would never want to hurt me. But this still happened. And it wont leave my mind. All in all I'm asking what should I do?

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mbholly

I am sorry you are going through this. I believe people can not consent to sexual activity when they are drunk. It does seem really complicated though when both people are drunk. Your friend may be regretting this too or also feeling like they didn’t consent. Whatever happened, it does not make you a bad person.

I don’t really know what you should do. You might call a local rape crisis center or use RAINN (they have an online chat) to talk it through. You might talk to your friend about it? They may or may not remember more than you do, but if you think you want the friendship to continue, you will have to address what happened. 

If you finish your registration, you could ask this in another forum and would likely get more input. 

Sending support.

 

 

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Guest constant doubt

I always felt unsure if what I went through was rape because I wanted him to come over to have sex and during sex I told him to stop because it hurt, and he knew it was my first time and he didn't stop until later, and for the most part I was uncomfortable but I blamed it being my first time. But in the end I though I was okay. I didn't think about it until maybe a couple days later and I was unsure, then I found out he gave me chlamydia, and I don't know if that could have made me alter my perception. This was months ago and it always come back into my head, and I'm in a constant state of anxiety about being so unsure.

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goddessofnight

Consent can always, always, always be recanted. Just because you said yes once doesn't mean that you don't have the right to change your mind later. If you withdraw your consent, and the other person has sex with you anyway, that is rape. I'm sorry for the issues that this person has caused you. 

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Guest iwannabehappy

i read this and saw that i was probably raped 

TBH it felt like it was rape, when i told his best friend he said it was but i didn't believe him or even think about it because at the time i loved my boyfriend but after our relationship i was haunted by that one incident and the ones that followed after. 

My sister always said no boys in the house and i didn't listen. we made-out  and i was scared of doing anything sexual but as things got heated he wanted to have sex. i was like i don't really want to do this but then he kinda begs and i said fine but i didn't want it and i wanted to stop in the middle of it but he kept going. I never said stop but it hurt and it was visible because i was showing discomfort . He even commented  about it but never said anything like sorry. After that i was scared to say no completely so any time he asked i would say sure but hesitantly. there were times where we had sex where we both wanted it and it was consensual but after i would think about the times it wasn't. I felt that if i didn't do it he would leave me and i also felt like he could probably shame me, every time we did it it would hurt and i would tell him and he would tell me to get used to it. we ended because he stopped  loving me at some point while i still loved him. He is still out there and im afraid of what he would do to anyone else im thinking about reporting it but im scared ill be turned away or told that this isn't rape. I was 16 and Im now still a minor, i didn't notice that he was narcissistic and lustful just as he was nice. 

I still don't believe it

im sorry to ask but Is it rape?

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Guest Hales13

I spent 4 years with an ex husband who Constantly nagged and coreced me into having sex. Even to the point where I became an alcoholic from all the drinks he would pour me daily and force me to drink. I say "force" loosely because he wouldn't physically force me, but if I didn't he would berate and scream and complain for hours if I didn't. He had raped me 3 times for sure, where I had blatantly told him no and he kept going. The other times during those four years I was talked into it nearly everytime, afriad to make him upset. Its been a year since i left and I'm still battling with everything inside my head.

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Guest bluebutterfly

i’m personally a bit confused with my own understanding between rape and sexual assault. i was drunk and drifting off to sleep, but i was still conscious. i was laying on my stomach and shut down and didn’t say no or tell him to stop or anything like that, but i didn’t want it and i didn’t say yes. 

right now it’s just really difficult to try and find the words to explain why i couldn’t speak, or do anything. it happened with an ex boyfriend and things are rocky with my current boyfriend now since i had told him about it. my ex even texted my boyfriend saying i had sex with him, but when my ex texted me saying that same thing i told him i didn’t want it but i shut down and couldn’t say anything. 

this just happened a couple days ago so everything’s still pretty fresh, i made an appointment to meet with a therapist but that’s not for another 22 days so i guess i’m just trying to talk about it and try and figure out where i go from here, since the appointment seems like forever away

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mbholly

Hi butterfly,

I think the line between sexual assault and rape is really primarily a legal one and so will vary a lot from place to place. Where I live sexual assault crosses the line into rape when penetration (with any part of the body Or with an object) takes place. I don’t know if it is helpful (as it really only matters how you think of it), but since you were drunk/drifting to sleep, didn’t want it, and didn’t say yes I would consider it rape. Sometimes it can help to speak to someone at a rape crisis center about your experience as it can help you clarify things and validate what you went through. 
I am glad you have an upcoming therapy appointment as I am sure that will help. There is lots of support here too. Please consider joining so you will have access to all the forums and resources.

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Guest bluebutterfly

hi mbholly,

your message was very helpful, thank you for that. i tend to think very analytically and know the kind of resources there are, i just don’t really know how my day to day life looks like going from here on out. it’s pretty scary to be by myself right now, since i really tend to overthink. 

i guess it’s difficult too bc im really not sure what i need at this point. sometimes i feel like just being held would be nice but on the other hand being touched right now can be somewhat triggering. the first time something like this happened to me it felt completely different, and i’m not exactly sure how to cope with everything with my lack of motivation to see how things can ever really get back to normal. 

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blondie2002

Short on words, but here's  a :puppy:

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