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I had that same feeling too lora. But when it always happened I was really scatter-minded ( is that even a word?) and I think everyone is, really. So how can one blame themselves for feeling like they wanted it? Because your going through so much and your brain is looking for the best expilnation. I mean that's what I get from it. And yeah, like everyone else said, don't beat yourself up over it. We all know it's hard to deal with ...
(((((Everyone)))))
abbey
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Sexual arousal during sexual assault Dealing with the shame
MultiQuote#2 Guest_silhouette_*
Posted 25 November 2003 - 12:58 AM
Louise, on Nov. 25 2003, 12:01 am, said:
- one of those women who "likes" to be raped.
^ This is exactly what the police officer said about me when they responded to my 911 call. Exactly.
He didn't even take a full statement from me; just that I told my ex no to sex, when I went on to explain that I couldn't recall too much of what happened because my husband had straddled me from behind, had my face shoved in a pillow and I was in and out of it from air hunger. The cop said that I was an unreliable witness then and preferred to gather the info from my ex. My ex said that I did say no intially but I obviously didn't mean it because I got "wet" - that's when they both chuckled and the cop said I was one of those women that like to be raped. My ex also said that I didn't "put out" very often, but that he now knew how to get me to. They chattered on a bit more about their favorite rape fantasies, oblivious to the fact that I was sitting there crying.
The words of that comment still stings although not like it did before. I knew I didn't want sex, I knew I was adament about saying no, I knew I didn't like it. But on some level it still hurts, I just don't know the why's or how comes.
Bah. The whole way the cop handled it still hurts.
#3
- Lavinia
- Group: Member
- Posts: 110
- Joined: 24-November 03
Posted 25 November 2003 - 01:05 PM
There were certain things that were done while I was being raped that I enjoyed. But it wasn't like "Oh, I really like it when Jamal is doing this." I think I just enjoyed having that done to me regardless of who it was. Ugh. I find that when I do that to myself now I feel sick to my stomach and immediately get flashbacks.
For a year, sometime after the rape, I was talking to my attacker and I used to find myself thinking about how easily it could be to have the situation happen all over again. I would feel a mixture of wanting it to happen again and nausea. I'm still not sure why I felt that way. I know that I didn't want it to happen again, becuase whenever I was alone with him I would be terrified that something might happen. But, I still thought about it.
It doesnt' make any sense :(
Love,
Stephanie
For a year, sometime after the rape, I was talking to my attacker and I used to find myself thinking about how easily it could be to have the situation happen all over again. I would feel a mixture of wanting it to happen again and nausea. I'm still not sure why I felt that way. I know that I didn't want it to happen again, becuase whenever I was alone with him I would be terrified that something might happen. But, I still thought about it.
It doesnt' make any sense :(
Love,
Stephanie
#4 Guest_711Liz_*
Posted 25 November 2003 - 01:11 PM
(((Amy))) (((Lora))) I am in awe of the two of you and the courage and strength with which you post about something that was so incredibly painful for you to post. Even though it may not feel like it right now to either of you, you are building the strength that is going to move you forward in your healing. You are both so beautiful and courageous in your honesty of the pain and brutality that you endured. It is an honor to know you although I wish it were under very different circumstances. Hang in there; I believe in you and feel that you will get to where you want to be. Love, Liz (((Amy))) (((Lora))) (((All Survivors)))
#5
- Not just "what's left of" anymore
- Group: Member
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Posted 25 November 2003 - 12:49 PM
(((((Amy)))))
I've never told anyone this before except my t., but I feel like I should share it here. I had a very similar experience.
*t* warning!
I went from having one of them holding down my arms while the other was inside my vagina to having both penetrate me at once in other areas. I remember desperately WISHING that they would just go back to doing what they were doing originally. So, like you, I had a conscious wish to have the one man inside me. But it is exactly what Liz said... it was just a comparison and a selection of the lesser of two evils NEITHER OF WHICH I WOULD HAVE CHOSEN OF MY OWN FREE WILL.
Please don't beat yourself up over this, hun.
Lora
[edited when this thread was moved to a public forum]
I've never told anyone this before except my t., but I feel like I should share it here. I had a very similar experience.
*t* warning!
I went from having one of them holding down my arms while the other was inside my vagina to having both penetrate me at once in other areas. I remember desperately WISHING that they would just go back to doing what they were doing originally. So, like you, I had a conscious wish to have the one man inside me. But it is exactly what Liz said... it was just a comparison and a selection of the lesser of two evils NEITHER OF WHICH I WOULD HAVE CHOSEN OF MY OWN FREE WILL.
Please don't beat yourself up over this, hun.
Lora
[edited when this thread was moved to a public forum]
#6
- Can't lives on Won't street...
- Group: Administrator
- Posts: 14,792
- Joined: 15-November 01
Posted 24 November 2003 - 11:47 PM
Hi People
In a "wonderful thread", a member tried to access another suggested thread that we'd linked to, but to that member's disappointment, the suggested thread was posted aeons ago and no longer exists.
The thread was about feelings around sexual arousal in the course of sexual assault, which is something many of us struggle with, so why don't we have a new one?
It would be great if you'd like to post about any dilemmas and feelings you've had around this topic, and lovely to hear about ways in which you've conquered any lasting shame, if you have - if not, perhaps this will also be helpful to you.
Hugs all
Lou xxxx
In a "wonderful thread", a member tried to access another suggested thread that we'd linked to, but to that member's disappointment, the suggested thread was posted aeons ago and no longer exists.
The thread was about feelings around sexual arousal in the course of sexual assault, which is something many of us struggle with, so why don't we have a new one?
It would be great if you'd like to post about any dilemmas and feelings you've had around this topic, and lovely to hear about ways in which you've conquered any lasting shame, if you have - if not, perhaps this will also be helpful to you.
Hugs all
Lou xxxx
#7 Guest_golden lady_*
Posted 24 November 2003 - 11:59 PM
******T CSA******
There was one time when my father was abusing me that my body responded. I later recalled it starting to feel good, and not resisiting that feeling at all. When that memory came back, I felt so ashamed, and had body memories for well over a week.
My T explained to me that even if i did "like" the feeling that gave me, it did not mean that I wanted the abuse to happen. It took a while and a few repititions of that, but I did eventually come to accept that it was still his fault. he was doing something he should never have been doing.
Barbara
There was one time when my father was abusing me that my body responded. I later recalled it starting to feel good, and not resisiting that feeling at all. When that memory came back, I felt so ashamed, and had body memories for well over a week.
My T explained to me that even if i did "like" the feeling that gave me, it did not mean that I wanted the abuse to happen. It took a while and a few repititions of that, but I did eventually come to accept that it was still his fault. he was doing something he should never have been doing.
Barbara
#8
- Can't lives on Won't street...
- Group: Administrator
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- Joined: 15-November 01
Posted 25 November 2003 - 12:01 AM
My friends,
Responding sexually during the course of rape was one of my best-kept secrets. Despite the fact that I was crying, despite the fact I'd said no, I responded at the point of entry and lubricated.
So often as I talked about being raped, it would come to me like a stage whisper: 'but you know, Louise, you got aroused, so it wasn't really rape. You must have wanted it".
I was absolutely terrified that if anyone ever found out, they'd think I was lying about being raped, or that I was just plain sick - one of those women who "likes" to be raped.
Over the years that I've come to understand that this response was based partly in my childhood, where touch from abusers was sometimes the only positive touch I got, and I learned to connect sexual feeling with pain and horror.
I hated my body, I thought my sexuality was dirty and that my body had betrayed me.
I understand fully now, that the shame isn't mine. And I mean really, the dilemma in which I found myself wasn't terribly logical - "I know I didn't want to be raped but I must have wanted to be raped". Ridiculous, much?
I also understand that we carry heavy socialization around how a person is "supposed" to respond to rape.
Here, also, is some stuff I swiped from my writing to share - might benefit somebody:
Women may have trouble defining their experiences as rape if they experienced sexual arousal or even orgasm during the event.
Sexual arousal in rape is well documented and is nothing for a woman to be ashamed of.
Finkelhor and Yllo suggest that for some women repeatedly raped by partners, arousal may be an adaptive response (1985, P.125).
If this happened to you, perhaps you will benefit from the words of trauma expert Aphrodite Matsakis:
"Before you chastise yourself for one minute longer, remember that your sexual organs do not have a brain. They cannot distinguish between a mauling rapist and the gentle touch of a lover. They simply react to stimulation the way they were designed to respond (1992 p 73)".
Some rapists attempt to stimulate a woman as proof of their sexual skills, or so they can use it against her, as proof that she "wanted it".
The issue here is consent. Regardless of what your body did, if you did not consent, you were sexually assaulted.
Responding sexually during the course of rape was one of my best-kept secrets. Despite the fact that I was crying, despite the fact I'd said no, I responded at the point of entry and lubricated.
So often as I talked about being raped, it would come to me like a stage whisper: 'but you know, Louise, you got aroused, so it wasn't really rape. You must have wanted it".
I was absolutely terrified that if anyone ever found out, they'd think I was lying about being raped, or that I was just plain sick - one of those women who "likes" to be raped.
Over the years that I've come to understand that this response was based partly in my childhood, where touch from abusers was sometimes the only positive touch I got, and I learned to connect sexual feeling with pain and horror.
I hated my body, I thought my sexuality was dirty and that my body had betrayed me.
I understand fully now, that the shame isn't mine. And I mean really, the dilemma in which I found myself wasn't terribly logical - "I know I didn't want to be raped but I must have wanted to be raped". Ridiculous, much?
I also understand that we carry heavy socialization around how a person is "supposed" to respond to rape.
Here, also, is some stuff I swiped from my writing to share - might benefit somebody:
Women may have trouble defining their experiences as rape if they experienced sexual arousal or even orgasm during the event.
Sexual arousal in rape is well documented and is nothing for a woman to be ashamed of.
Finkelhor and Yllo suggest that for some women repeatedly raped by partners, arousal may be an adaptive response (1985, P.125).
If this happened to you, perhaps you will benefit from the words of trauma expert Aphrodite Matsakis:
"Before you chastise yourself for one minute longer, remember that your sexual organs do not have a brain. They cannot distinguish between a mauling rapist and the gentle touch of a lover. They simply react to stimulation the way they were designed to respond (1992 p 73)".
Some rapists attempt to stimulate a woman as proof of their sexual skills, or so they can use it against her, as proof that she "wanted it".
The issue here is consent. Regardless of what your body did, if you did not consent, you were sexually assaulted.
#9 Guest__*
Posted 25 November 2003 - 05:24 AM
I was tortured and abused at age 9. My body eventually started responding too. I'm not sure but I think I had orgasms long before kids are supposed to. I think the fact that the body does respond in such terrible circumstances leads to that terrible feeling of feeling dirty and feeling shame. There are bucket loads of cops who don't a thing about crisis intervention, domestic violence, rape or whatever. They just know how to arrest bad guys but don't know exactly who is the bad guy is unless they witness it. Some departments have specialized training and persons for those situations. Most do not.
#10
- Proud Survivor
- Group: Member
- Posts: 1,104
- Joined: 20-July 02
Posted 25 November 2003 - 05:29 AM
sigh... yes..when I was a little older.. and when he was not being so violent.. yeah my body responded... I havn't worked through this one yet..
I know logically our bodies are made to respond to stimulis.. I know that..but believing that in my heart is a whole nother story.
anyway that's all I can contribute right now.
Michelle
I know logically our bodies are made to respond to stimulis.. I know that..but believing that in my heart is a whole nother story.
anyway that's all I can contribute right now.
Michelle
#11
- Not just "what's left of" anymore
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- Joined: 18-May 03
Posted 25 November 2003 - 06:01 AM
When I was raped, I started having involuntary vaginal contractions while he was inside me. As much as I tried to stop them, I couldn't. The worst part was having HIM notice it and make comments about me liking it and saying how women ALWAYS like it rough (obviously it was not the first time he had raped a woman).
This was one of the first of the "hard" things that I talked to my t. about. She, of course, said it's just a body part doing what it's supposed to do, it doesn't mean anything, blah, blah, blah... yeah, all things my head already knew. None of that helped ease the guilt (and the anger that my body had given him "ammunition" to claim that I was enjoying it).
What helped me let go of the guilt, as simple as it might sound, was a combination of two things. First, someone here (sorry, can't find the thread at the moment) gave me an analogy of it being the same as laughing when you're tickled. You laugh as an automatic response, but it doesn't mean you're having fun (thank you to the person who replied with this, whoever you are! :) ). My dad used to get us kids on the floor and tickle us until we had tears in our eyes, which was long past the point where it was fun, but we continued to laugh even though we were asking him to stop, so he continued to tickle until my mother would say "enough". SO this analogy really hit home for me. The other thing that helped me realize that it really IS just a body response with no emotional or intellectual component was an occasion a couple of months ago when I had really zoned out during sex with G. and then "returned" and realized that my body was (and had been) responding to him even though my mind and emotions were completely blank.
So... I have been able to let go of the guilt, but it still makes me angry that he used my body's response to justify his villainy. :angry:
Lora
This was one of the first of the "hard" things that I talked to my t. about. She, of course, said it's just a body part doing what it's supposed to do, it doesn't mean anything, blah, blah, blah... yeah, all things my head already knew. None of that helped ease the guilt (and the anger that my body had given him "ammunition" to claim that I was enjoying it).
What helped me let go of the guilt, as simple as it might sound, was a combination of two things. First, someone here (sorry, can't find the thread at the moment) gave me an analogy of it being the same as laughing when you're tickled. You laugh as an automatic response, but it doesn't mean you're having fun (thank you to the person who replied with this, whoever you are! :) ). My dad used to get us kids on the floor and tickle us until we had tears in our eyes, which was long past the point where it was fun, but we continued to laugh even though we were asking him to stop, so he continued to tickle until my mother would say "enough". SO this analogy really hit home for me. The other thing that helped me realize that it really IS just a body response with no emotional or intellectual component was an occasion a couple of months ago when I had really zoned out during sex with G. and then "returned" and realized that my body was (and had been) responding to him even though my mind and emotions were completely blank.
So... I have been able to let go of the guilt, but it still makes me angry that he used my body's response to justify his villainy. :angry:
Lora
#12 Guest__*
Posted 25 November 2003 - 06:06 AM
This is one of the hardest things to deal with! The shame can be stifling.
There were those times...when my body reacted. Even as they were causing me physical pain and nausea, and I fought, and screamed, and felt my entire body rejecting them with a real feeling of....violent panic? Yeah, sometimes in spite of everything, my body still responded to being stimulated. I still feel the horror and shame of my body's orgasm, my body's BETRAYAL of me.
And just as you said, Lou:
"I was absolutely terrified that if anyone ever found out, they'd think I was lying about being raped, or that I was just plain sick - one of those women who "likes" to be raped.
Over the years that I've come to understand that this response was based partly in my childhood, where touch from abusers was sometimes the only positive touch I got, and I learned to connect sexual feeling with pain and horror.
I hated my body, I thought my sexuality was dirty and that my body had betrayed me."
I fought for years to deal with these feelings and fears. Sometimes I still struggle a little, but healing has happened and is still happening.
Thanks for starting this thread, Lou. It is very important to talk about this.
(((gentle safe hugs)))
Love,
Tash
There were those times...when my body reacted. Even as they were causing me physical pain and nausea, and I fought, and screamed, and felt my entire body rejecting them with a real feeling of....violent panic? Yeah, sometimes in spite of everything, my body still responded to being stimulated. I still feel the horror and shame of my body's orgasm, my body's BETRAYAL of me.
And just as you said, Lou:
"I was absolutely terrified that if anyone ever found out, they'd think I was lying about being raped, or that I was just plain sick - one of those women who "likes" to be raped.
Over the years that I've come to understand that this response was based partly in my childhood, where touch from abusers was sometimes the only positive touch I got, and I learned to connect sexual feeling with pain and horror.
I hated my body, I thought my sexuality was dirty and that my body had betrayed me."
I fought for years to deal with these feelings and fears. Sometimes I still struggle a little, but healing has happened and is still happening.
Thanks for starting this thread, Lou. It is very important to talk about this.
(((gentle safe hugs)))
Love,
Tash
#13
- temporarily insane
- Group: Member
- Posts: 484
- Joined: 18-August 03
Posted 25 November 2003 - 09:58 AM
********T******** bits of my story. be safe.
Okay this is definately the hardest thing for me. I am shocked that I am even replying.I am though because maybe I will get reassurance. I dont know :( Anyway, as mentioned the sex organs cant help the way they react and so forth..not really my dilema.*sigh* i (in retrospect) never have to worry about the wet thing because I remeber it being wet, but then I also remember *blood*.( i was a virgin) So (although it wasnt much) it justifys the 'wet' part enough for me. anyway..yes i am getting to the point ..ok...
I remeber after they were both done...one was forcing himself against/in/my mouth to get erect again(he was saying that the whole time too" come on so we can f*ck again")...omg this is so hard for me....
Iremeber laying there 'thinking' with my brain NOT my sex organs..THINKING logically,..
'I wish the other one would penetrate me again, he feels much better then this one'
*tears* this is the reason, the 'thing' in my healing that I just cant get over. I feel like it wasnt even rape. I wanted it. I am just as sick and evil as them. Just over that one thought I had in a continuous two hour ordeal. BUT its such an important thought.
I cant believe i just typed this out. I'm sorry, sometimes I feel like i dont even belong here...i wasnt even raped. MY mind had that thought, not my body. I didnt get wet, i didnt oragasim...i had a 'thought'
`amy
Okay this is definately the hardest thing for me. I am shocked that I am even replying.I am though because maybe I will get reassurance. I dont know :( Anyway, as mentioned the sex organs cant help the way they react and so forth..not really my dilema.*sigh* i (in retrospect) never have to worry about the wet thing because I remeber it being wet, but then I also remember *blood*.( i was a virgin) So (although it wasnt much) it justifys the 'wet' part enough for me. anyway..yes i am getting to the point ..ok...
I remeber after they were both done...one was forcing himself against/in/my mouth to get erect again(he was saying that the whole time too" come on so we can f*ck again")...omg this is so hard for me....
Iremeber laying there 'thinking' with my brain NOT my sex organs..THINKING logically,..
'I wish the other one would penetrate me again, he feels much better then this one'
*tears* this is the reason, the 'thing' in my healing that I just cant get over. I feel like it wasnt even rape. I wanted it. I am just as sick and evil as them. Just over that one thought I had in a continuous two hour ordeal. BUT its such an important thought.
I cant believe i just typed this out. I'm sorry, sometimes I feel like i dont even belong here...i wasnt even raped. MY mind had that thought, not my body. I didnt get wet, i didnt oragasim...i had a 'thought'
`amy
#14 Guest_711Liz_*
Posted 25 November 2003 - 11:59 AM
Amy, please be gentle with yourself and give yourself a break. Our minds naturally work in the state of comparisons which is all that yours was doing. Just because you had that thought does not mean that you wanted it or liked it; it does not mean that you consented. It does not mean that you are evil like them or that you were not raped. You unfortunately had two rapists and your mind simply was making a comparison that's all, nothing more and nothing less. Apparently, by then, it was obvious that they were going to continue to rape you and your mind went to that comparison, that's all, OK? So, please realize you did not deserve this nor did you want it simply because your mind was working out a comparison. Please take care of yourself; you are precious and deserve to be treated with love, dignity, and respect. Love, Liz (((Amy)))
#15
- temporarily insane
- Group: Member
- Posts: 484
- Joined: 18-August 03
Posted 25 November 2003 - 12:17 PM
Liz~thanks, i really needed to hear that. I have pretty much thrown myself into hysterics now today, *so* pissed at myself. Everyone feels like there body betrayed them, I feel like 'I' or maybe my 'mind' betrayed me.
I already feel better that I have said this outloud though, well... atleast outloud to you guys :( . Its so hard, so so hard
~amy
I already feel better that I have said this outloud though, well... atleast outloud to you guys :( . Its so hard, so so hard
~amy