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Uncovering a truth


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#16 Guest__*

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Posted 09 April 2002 - 09:29 AM

((((Shell))))

I was thinking of you yesterday and wondering how therapy was for you!!  Mine was very intense but good...I'll email you later. :)  I'm so glad you had this breakthrough with your therapist.....I have struggled with this same problem through the years as well.  I have even been too embarrassed to ask a guy to walk me to my car at night at work, for fear that he's looking at me and thinking, "what the #### is SHE worried about?"  It's so hard, these feelings.

It's true, rape and abuse do NOT only happen to physically "beautiful" or "pretty" people.  I am so glad your session went so well yesterday, Shell.  ((((safe hugs)))).

And by the way honey.....you are so beautiful.

Love always,
Tash


#17 Cil

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Posted 10 April 2002 - 08:12 AM

(((((((michelle)))))

this subject makes me so #### angry adn SICK, I was reading a site a while ago (cant find it anymore) adn it had a quote from a serial killer saying that attractiveness had nothing to do with it, this thing makes me so angry, i dont have much else to say, i hope u feel better soon
(((((HUGS))))))
cil


#18 Alex12345

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Posted 10 April 2002 - 09:58 AM

((((Michelle)))))

I sincerely don't think you hurt anybody with that thread. You didn't hurt me at all. I think you just got many of us to think about the relation we may see between what we look like and what happened. I personally think this thread is a great one because it leads us to think about this relationship. It's certainly why people shared here their negative experience related to the way people see them or they seem themselves with what happened to them. It's certainly why so many people talked about the problem of being classified as attractive.
We all got a different point of view of ourselves. As Nathasha told it, I think beauty is something that you can't define because one person can find another person beautiful and this same person can be seen as ugly by another person. And the beauty comes from your heart and soul. It kind of hurts me you see yourself as a "not beautiful woman" because I see you as a beautiful woman from what I know from you from here.
To conclude this ramble, not matter what you look like, sick people are gong to act sick. If you are very "beautiful" in most of people's eyes, it just give them another excuse, and use that excuse. But they're sick, that's all.

Ok, I'm not sure at all I make sense and I'm feeling too lazy to read what I just wrote to correct it.

(((((Michelle)))))


#19 hdsmith

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Posted 10 April 2002 - 02:58 PM

(((Michelle)))

This thread has really had my head in a spin.  I feel like a victim ALL over again.  But this time a victim of society. How did I buy into the media etc telling me how important outside apperences are.  I feel so dumb, like a sell out back to square one.


#20 Guest__*

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Posted 11 April 2002 - 04:23 AM

((((Heather))))

I am so sorry, just so sorry, that I have done this. I didn't mean to. This I can't take. Society sucks - it has failed us all.


#21 Cherry Blossom

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Posted 11 April 2002 - 10:15 AM

Society can kiss my bony butt and shove their opinions up their ass.  Every one of us is beautiful and NONE of us deserved to be r*ped for it.
((((Michelle)))) this is a great thread, and I love how everyone can be so open with each other here.  Don't apologize for it honey, you're just sharing an experience.

Luv,
Cherry


#22 Guest__*

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Posted 28 May 2002 - 11:40 PM

I agree with everybody posting that this is a societal problem. I think it's the flipside of the (also wrong, but less obviously bad) attitude that "a good woman can save a bad man" (which is all over the place in movies and songs and stories). We're supposed to be somehow responsible for their morality. Lots of people still think women are more moral than men, which makes me angry. That just lets guys who are jerks off the hook. It's also unfair to all the great guys out there who are stand-up guys who'd never hurt anybody.

It's not their fault because we're so pretty they can't help themselves? Please. I am pretty all the time and most men do not rape me. So that excuse just won't wash. The guys who "can't control themselves" AREN'T TRYING.

I agree with the poster who said she gets dressed in sexy clothing anyway. I do this too. I usually dress up in the context of going to bars to dance with friends. I've noticed that when I wear jeans and a sloppy t-shirt I get about the same amount of bad attention as when I wear something skintight and sexy. So I don't see the point in trying to hide my body anymore.

I refuse to allow my past to control how I feel about my body. I am not ashamed of being a woman. I want to be comfortable in my own skin.


#23 Guest_Amy_*

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Posted 16 January 2003 - 07:22 PM

I've put off replying to this thread for a lot of reasons, but when I re-read it tonight, I found that I'm ready.  I think.
Before I was sexually assaulted when I was thirteen, I lost a lot of weight -- almost forty pounds.  Before then, I was teased and tormented about the extra pounds.  One of the boys who hurt me later on used to call me "sow" (you have no idea how much it hurts to write that).  So I lost the weight, I went back to school much thinner than before, and feeling pretty for the first time in a loooong time.  On the first day of school, one of my classmates caught me walking alone down the hall and shoved his hand between my legs.
It goes on like this -- instead of the taunts and teasing about being overweight, I was groped and touched.  My teacher told me I should be flattered by their attention.  For a long time, I tried to deal with what I did remember of that year's worth of sexual abuse as a compliment -- they thought I was pretty, so what they did couldn't be bad.  Right?
Wrong.
Wrong wrong wrong.
It sickens me to think about it, how I tried to deal with it all as flattery, when in reality it was just another way to put me down, just like the ugly names and taunts.  Trying to bring me down to their level, to keep me somewhere beneath them.  
I know now that it had nothing to do with the way I looked.  It would have been abuse, one way or the other.  They would have treated me the same.  But I wasted so many years in hating myself, the way I looked -- staying overweight to stay safe, thinking that it protected me.  Losing the weight occasionally and then being so frightened, completely convinced that every second I spent thin was a second I spent in mortal danger.  If I bear any hatred at all, it's for the time I've wasted and what I've done to my health because of them.
Grrrrr.
Amy

#24 Cathy

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 04:06 PM

((((Shell))))

First off, I've seen your picture and I see a beautiful woman.

Second,  yes, it happens to women of all looks.  I'm sure you've seen my picture.  And I think we can all agree that the chances are zero of me being called pretty or any other physical compliment.

But you are right, nobody deserves to be hurt because of how they look.  Of course I tend to go the opposite way and say that maybe if I was pretty, then he would have cared for and respected me enough not to hurt me.  I don't know.  I'm tired and making little sense.

Just know that I believe you and love you.

Cathy


#25 Guest__*

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Posted 09 April 2002 - 07:32 AM

(((((((((((((Michelle)))))))))))
 phew.....it knocks the wind out of you when realisations kinda hit you head on huh?  
  I had similar thoughts of 'why would anyone believe that someone would want to be with me and therefore would rape me?' but I think it still boils down to the whole 'why would anyone believe you' idea.  It makes me angry...Why shouldn't people believe us?  However we act or think or look, we should be believed...
    I wish you could have felt able to be believed, I wish you could have felt like you could tell someone.  Sometimes its not til someone believes in you that you believe in yourself is it?  Someway or another validation by another (when we dont feel confident in ourselves) helps us to start to heal.  I just wish it could have come sooner for you.
     ((((((((hugs)))))))
       Love JellyB
PS - if you're half as beautiful as the woman I know you to be here at Pandys, then you're one #### of a beautiful woman!!!!!!!!!!
   

#26 Cherry Blossom

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Posted 09 April 2002 - 02:16 PM

I was always told what a beautiful girl I was. I thought that was the problem.  Guys would stare at me all the time, finding excuses to touch me or brush up against me, making jokes about my breasts (I'm unusually well-endowed in that area.  I really wish I wasn't.) and whistling and howling when I walked by.  And when I told my friends how uncomfortable it made me they just laughed and said "what did I expect?" or else they got mad at me for "not appreciating the attention" or something.  Apparently I was supposed to take it as a compliment that guys eyed my body like I was a piece of meat.

When I wore short skirts or nice outfits I was accused of "asking for trouble" and when I got goosed in the halls or some guys bumped into me and made me drop my books so that I'd have to bend over to pick them up my friends would just laugh or ignore it.  

When I went out at night to a dance club or something, guys would take my smile as an invitation to touch or kiss or rub wihtout permission and all my girlfriends would look at me like they were jealous, like it was something I wanted.  One time I remember, I was out at a club and I had danced with some guy because he asked me and I wanted to be polite.  After a while it became evident that he was a poor dancer and hekept trying to touch my breasts, so I excused myself, saying I was too tired to dance anymore, and went back to sit down by my friends.  The guy was persistant.  He kept coming back every five seconds to ask me to dance again, but each time I said no.  My friends thought it was cute but I was kind of scared.  He kept looking at me strangely.  Then after a while, he came back again, and asked me to dance with him.  I said no, this time not as politely.  He ignored me, grabbed my wrists and forced me onto the dance floor.  He was dragging me into the crowd and I couldn't see my friends anymore, I was really scared.  I twisted out of his hands, injuring my wrist in the process and ran back to where my friends were.  They hadn't moved an inch to help me.  In fact they didn't even mention that I was almost kidnapped by some creep.  I couldn't believe it.  I asked them why they didn't come help me and one girl shrugged and said, "you danced with him earlier.  We thought that was what you wanted."  One of the other girls actually scolded me for being a tease!!

At work it happened to, guests would make lewd comments, touch themselves in my presence, expose themselves, try to grab me, touch me, kiss me.  And when I told they just say "see what you do to guys?  You're too pretty" and laugh like it was all a big joke.  

When I was r*ped, I couldn't help but think it was because I was "too pretty" and guys just couldn't help themselves around me.  It was my fault for being such a "c*ck tease".  Even the therapists and counsellors I saw all told me was a beautiful girl I was, so pretty, the police men said it too.

I don't want to be pretty anymore.

Cherry


#27 Guest_Jasmine 8104_*

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Posted 10 April 2002 - 05:23 AM

This thread has got me thinking, and there's something I wanted to add.  The behavior of some men (not all, but unfortunately it seems to be the majority) no doubt makes all of us not want to be pretty anymore.  The logic is if we're not pretty then nobody will want to do any of these things.  This is not true.  My problem is this:  I want to be pretty for my boyfriend, and I will dress up and put on makeup, etc for when we go out.  When I do this, I get extra attention and looks from other men and that makes me very uncomfortable.  So either I can't make myself look nice for my boyfriend (and for me), or I make myself look nice for everyone.  Did this make any sense?

#28 Guest__*

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Posted 10 April 2002 - 09:03 AM

(((((Shell)))))

This is an important thread, sweetie.  I'll ramble a little bit, too, ok?  :P

First of all, I have had friends who were physically breathtakingly beautiful who definitely had to endure the mistreatment spoken of in above posts.  Not only that, but members of their same sex were disgustingly jealous and hateful towards them, too.  However, this kind of lewd mistreatment happens to people who are "not beautiful". (and I struggle with even typing that, because beauty comes from the heart and soul....I have a really hard time with labels.) One girl that I remember so clearly from school was teased mercilessly and called "ugly" by our classmates.  She was in the awkward preteen stage, very gangly and thin with long arms and legs, really bad acne, and her hair had a huge cowlick in the front which would never cooperate....to compensate, her mother kept her hair cut very short.  She had no self-confidence; and my heart aches to remember her and her torment and her fears.  She rarely would make eye contact with anyone.  I spent a lot of time at her house, and I can remember her brother was such a pig....he grabbed her inappropriately, hit her all the time, made comments about her breasts....one time he pelted us with M&M's hard enough to hurt...he was such an ass.  But it wasn't just her brother....the boys at school liked grabbing her too or making sexual comments.  It was as if the mean comments about her physical appearance wasn't quite enough, they had to try to be even meaner to her, so they went after her that way too.  She eventually grew up, her mother took her to a determatologist and got her acne under control, her hair grew....but the thing is, she was never "ugly".  I always saw beauty when I looked at her.  My feelings didn't change when people started saying that "the ugly duckling had become a swan."  She was still the same person, and so were the morons who tormented her.

Ok.  Thinking about this from my own personal experience....I can remember being a teenager sitting at the dinner table, and my breasts being the topic of conversation.  My mother was jealous of me in many ways, and she always made a big deal of really ridiculous things.  She always pointed out my breasts....which really are not spectacular, btw, they're just everyday average breasts....and pretty soon in the family, it was something to joke about, talk about, tease me about, and my stepfather to drool over....my breasts seemed to take on a life of their own.  This apparently gave him or any of his cronies free license to grab or touch my breasts any time they wanted to.  I always dressed in oversized shirts and jeans....always trying to minimize and draw attention away from my body.  It didn't matter though, and it didn't help to save me from being the object of sexual comments or abuse, not at all.  At this time in my life, my stepfather also would make me put on heavy makeup, very short skirts and high heels and go out out with him to a restaurant or bar, as if we were a couple.  I noticed that certain men always grope or feel or whatever innapropriately...the only difference in wearing baggy shirts and jeans or the short skirt outfits was the comments.  I got a lot more disgusting comments, dressed in his whore outfits.  But it seems to me that the segment of the population that gropes, feels, and forces themselves on others and makes these types of filthy comments, will do it no matter what.  Also, a few years ago, I starved myself...literally....and lost 70 pounds.  I did it in 5 months.  I was tired of being overweight, yet afraid that once free of my "fat shell", I would attract unwanted attention from men.  In my personal experience, I didn't really notice a difference, except for one pervert's comment to me in a store when I was wearing a summer dress with spaghetti straps....otherwise, I didn't notice a big difference in the way men treated me.  My personal belief is that sexual predators do not only go after those who are physically beautiful.  That's only my opinion.  I do know how it feels though, to want to hide so you're not noticed.  But in my own experience, there doesn't really seem to be much rhyme or reason to the thinking of a sexual predator.  

And also, I have also had the great joy of knowing that there ARE men out there who are wonderful....loving, caring and compassionate...they are not all scumbags.  I have been very blessed, as I know some of you have, with wonderful guy friends.

This is all just my rambling.  This is a great thread for all of us to think and work through how we feel about these issues.

((((safe hugs))))

Lots of love,
Tasha

(Edited by Natasha at 11:06 am on April 10, 2002)


#29 WeirdOne7

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Posted 10 April 2002 - 02:37 PM

((((((((((((((Shel)))))))))))))))

#30 Guest__*

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Posted 11 April 2002 - 05:08 AM

My father says things like that to me all the time.  Why would they want to do those things to me.  It must have been my fault.  I did something...When Luis r*ped me he said to me that since i was so ugly, no one would ever want me and i should just take what i could get.

i thought i could do this but i cant

i love you michelle



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