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"You're Lying" - Terrible Secondary Wound


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#31 Louise

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Posted 29 January 2002 - 02:09 PM

(((((Sisters; hugs for you all)))))))

((((((Kelly)))))) Why don't others go through what you did and then they can see how easy it is to "move on"; how little it "matters". What the #### is wrong with people?
And just for the record, sweetie, your honesty is beautiful.
((((((Laney))))))) I hope that fucking woman was ordered out of your house. I suppose that I find others being prepared to stand up for me helpful and I hope you did too.

((((Tasheroo))))) darling...your mother is unbeleivable. How sad for somebody to think you could want your childhood to be stolen in the way it was.

(((((((Samantha))))))) When your pain is unacknowledged, it does seem like the implication is that you're exaggerating in some way doesn't it? God, who'd want to exaggerate such pain?

((((Michelle)))))) "Fuck Off" sounds like a good response to me!

L xxx


#32 Guest_Little Sunshine_*

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Posted 29 January 2002 - 03:26 PM

(((Lou)))

***Might trigger***

It just sucks to hear such bullshit, doesn’t it? For many years, I kept my childhood abuse silent. Around the age of 20, I began to experience very bad nightmares and flashbacks relating to the abuse. Everything stopped once I told my mother, thankfully she believed me.

However, when I was raped a year ago, all I heard were horrible and mean comments when all I needed was support.

These are statements and comments made by my family:

-“That’s what you get, you don’t sleep in the same bed with a boy.”—What’s so wrong about this people?
-“Why didn’t you kick his ass?”—I disassociated dammit!
-“Why didn’t you scream?”—I was scared, what the fuck!
-“You deserved it.”—Did I really deserve this? Really….?
-“It’s hard to believe it, how did you let that happen.”
-“How could you let him take advantage of you?”
-“You were asking for it by wearing such sexy underwear.”—He wouldn’t have seen them until he raped me, what the fuck?

These are the comments of the fucking dirty ass defense attorney and that lame ass judge:

-“How come you let him sleep in the same bed with you?’
-“Was it raining so hard outside that you HAD to stay over his parents’ house?”
-“You had a couple of drinks that night, how do you know you said no?”
-“You let him kiss you and fondle your breasts, you must’ve wanted it.”
-“You’re doing this to get back at him for breaking up with you.”
-“How come you didn’t yell or leave the house?”
-“He’s a very educated man with a career, why are you trying to mess up his life?”
-“He’s never been in trouble before, why can’t you give him a break?”

Well, that was during trial number one, trial number two is coming up and further humiliation must be tolerated.

It’s a shame that we must all face some sort of humiliation and doubt from people. I still feel so much guilt. One thing that I would change would be I would’ve gone home rather than spend the night with him at his parents’ house. I would’ve driven home in the storm even if it meant getting into an accident…this hurts even more than that.

(((((Hugs to all of you who’ve gone or are going through similar experiences)))))))

Love,

Little Sunshine


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Posted 29 January 2002 - 03:48 PM

(((((Christine))))

I am so sorry that you are having a hard time right now.  Like you, I simply cannot cry for myself.  I can cry for just about anyone else, but not for me.  Maybe one day, huh?

Kelly


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Posted 29 January 2002 - 07:05 PM

ok (((((((Lou))))))), this is so hard but i'm gonna try it,
i wanna do this


my mom said:
-i don't believe you, you've been reading too much books over things like that,it's all in your head,
when i became really depressed she said stuff like:
-why are you making yourself so sick?
-when are you gonna start acting normal?
now years later, she still says those things to me

my best friend at the time said after i told her about my first *r*:
-oh, i thought it was much worse
-she admidded a little while ago that there were times she didn't believe me at all
and now a little while ago she said:
-are you still dealing with that, just get over it
-if he ever comes near me, i hurt him so bad he can't even touich me.....makes me feel soooo small & guilty

the kids in highschool (knew after i tried to kill myself:gossip):
-i was looking for attention
-i was a slut
-i was always looking for trouble and loved trouble
-i wanted pitty from anyone (I HATE PITTY)
-i must have liked it otherwise it wouldn't happen that often

one therapist said she wasn't sure if i was telling the truth cause i couldn't really talk about it

one person i trusted said she wanted to believe me but couldn't

when i broke up with my boyfriend he wouldn't let me go, said i was the love of his life. i loved him too so i told him about all the r**es and from then he wouldn't have anything to do with me anymore.

when i went to the doctor for a declaration of physical violance she first didn't wanna make one cause she knew i cut myself, but this was about bruises from 25cm on 20 cm. and bruised ribbs, i spend 20min convincing her that he had hurt me again

the police won't believe me, cause i can't tell the real name of the guy even though i went out with him for 5 months. i called them a few days ago to ask for help cause my ex had threatened to r**e me again but they said to me that they couldn't do anything yet, and they added "liesel, you should know that by now"


shit this makes me feel sooooo sad, why do they don't believe me, i wish i couldn't believe it myself. there were times i really thought it was all in my head cos everyone said so...but the pain is much too real

when someone says those things to me i tell them in their face that i don't care what they believe, that i know the truth and that that's what counts...but that's just to show them i'm 'strong'...it kills me to hear those people say that and the pain...the pain hurts too bad to carry it alone...an impossible thing to do.

love and srength to you all
liesel

lou thanx for this post, really makes me think...thanx girl


#35 Jes

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Posted 29 January 2002 - 09:08 PM

Lou,

What a wonderful thread.

Although none of those painful words were spoken to me, others were.  A couple of close friends ignorantly told me that they had had friends who had been raped, but that these women's experiences had been "much more violent."

As if that made a fucking difference to me.

Grrr..

Love,
Jes


#36 Guest_Lil Tiger_*

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Posted 30 January 2002 - 04:01 AM

((((((LOU))))))))

Great thread hun and is veyr true, I wil try to respond at a later date ;)

(((((WARM SAFE HUGS)))))) to all fam

love always
Lil Tiger


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Posted 31 January 2002 - 10:40 AM

thank you lou, once again I bow down in awe of your posting prowess.

I was brave enough to talk about the r*** - but some people doubted me or tried to say I was making it up.  As for my childhood abuse - I've never told anyone, apart from the pandy's family, and I think part of that is cos I'm scared of secondary wounds....after all the stuff, it would be the last thing I need.

But hopefully, after a bit more time on pandy's (dutch courage?) I'll feel safe enough to tell all.

Loads of love,
Rose


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Posted 31 January 2002 - 04:13 PM

#Moderation Mode

Moved here


#39 NotYetHealed

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Posted 16 January 2003 - 10:01 AM

(((((Lou)))))

I've had particular problems and issues (that is the mother of all understatements) with some family and friends I have told. Their perception was that I remained in an unhealthy relationship with a person that had done horrible things to me in the past, that I had been warned to get out and those warnings were ignored, thus it wasn't really rape but my putting up with more of the same.  It's so f*cking draining to understand how they view my being r*ped violently at knifepoint a month after my leaving, after hours at my place of employment, as "putting up" with "more of the same".  For the life of me I can not and do not want to wrap my mind around that beyond-warped f*cking logic!

The other lovely response I have gotten a few times too often is that because I didn't report it then it must not have happened the way I said it did. That somehow because I had previously been involved with this bastard that there had to have been some element of consent because it had been consensual in the past, you know?  It wasn't really r*pe because I had been intimate with him for years, that because I once loved him that it could not be "r*pe".  Lisa, what's wrong with you, don't you know that r*pe is something that ONLY happens in dark, back alleys by strangers?  That was written fececiously, although too #### often implied - the following is too #### real:  "This is not and would never really be classified as r*pe".  Lisa's mind speaks silently:  "Well, ####!  That's a f*cking load off of my already guilty shoulders for not having reported it!  Perhaps I should just report the fact that he was armed with a knife and beat the living shit out of me - we'll just forget the r*pe and sexual assault!"  WTF!

And then on to how I have replied.  Much of what was said was said at a time when I was in a very weakened state of mind and my response was equally weakened.  "You don't understand ~ you will never understand ~ you weren't there, don't tell me what it was or wasn't".  The challenge I found was that the more I would try to defend myself the more ridicule I was subjected to so I began to really shut down - completely.  It was a long time before I would open up to anyone other than my best friend (I don't know what the #### I would have done if I didn't have him).  

I'm feeling beyond pissed off and so #### drained just from having to think about what we survivors of the "mother of all pain" have had to endure, you know?  Not just the r*pe itself, but that secondary wounding that occurs - that wounding from those who allegedly love and care about us.  Those loving, well-meaning, open-minded, "will be there for you not matter what" family and friends.  I think I quote Em here when I say "fuck that for a game of soldiers".  

Love,
Lisa    



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Posted 18 March 2003 - 04:35 AM

I was raped by a fellow resident of a "Christian discipleship home" (a fancy name for a longterm halfway house).  When I finally reported it, a month afterward, I got no support whatsoever from the staff appointed counselor I didn't get along with.  They made me confront him immediately with no support, just me and my (awful) counselor, him and his counselor, and the director.  I knew walking in there it was just me and God.  So I told my story very calmly and rationally without any help at all from anyone.  Here are the conclusions they came to:

1) He couldn't have done it.  After all, he was almost the most popular guy in the house, the handyman, and everyone liked him.  He would never do such a thing.

2) I wouldn't lie.  It just wasn't in me.

THEREFORE:

I had had a psychotic episode!!!

I am not kidding about all this.  Three psychologically trained adults decided I had had a psychotic episode.  They were going to force me to see their psychiatrist.  I refused.  I had my own psychiatrist from previous bouts of depression, and I said I would see him.  So I did, and of course he laughed about the whole thing.  HE knew I wasn't crazy.  

To be honest, all that was almost worse than the rape.  But I really believe that "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord".  I just behaved myself; he was eaten up inside with what he had done, and in a month he was gone.  Last I heard he was homeless.  I think he's been sufficiently punished.

Anyhow, that's my story.


#41 Rachel26

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 04:51 PM

For the last day or two I've been thinking that I should 'come out' about what happened to me and just tell everyone. I am at a very small college where everyone knows everyone; there are probably 50-60 women here and I don't know of any others who have been subjected to sexual violence. But some of them MUST have been and it's so frustrating to think that we're all too embarrassed to talk about it. I'm finding it very hard to stay silent, especially when I hear supposedly intelligent men, who are friends of mine, make frankly disgusting comments about women, and discuss them like they're dolls or something. Now I'm pretty sure I'm not going to say anything because I am struggling as it is at the moment and to hear comments like the ones I've read here would finish me off. It makes me very, very sad though.

#42 Guest__*

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 05:42 PM

** trigger for religion **

I am responding to the posting on rude an ignorant questions and comments or attitudes on the part of others that you know or in the community.  This, as well as the fact of being unable to locate a decent therapist in these parts, has been my biggest obstacle to healing.

Many negative responses have come.  Men in the community act like I must have liked it and treat me like a piece of meat and a whore.  I give them disparaging looks or roll my eyes up and walk away or look in another direction (men hate being ignored.)  One guy today just turned and looked at me fully (I didn't know him) like I must be available and cheap.  I replied, "Sorry, Charlie..." I have no problem  putting men like that in their place, because first of all they are hypocrites.  They are putting me down and trying to use me because to them I am a whore (when I'm not a whore,)yet at the same time they are being male whores, in wanting to do it with whomever they see that might be handy.  Also they are going by what they thought they saw or what they might have heard about me, rather than finding out the facts, and that is truly ignorant.

I called a friend and told her I was raped.  This person has been through alot so I figured she would understand something like this.  Wrong!  She ridiculed indirectly, changing the subject to something innane and then her daughter got on the extension and began making mouth noise into the phone, at which point they both kind-of laughed.  I said I had to go and hung up and never spoke to her again.  I never plan to speak to her again.  If she can insult me like that, she doesnt deserve to talk to me.

Many of the other students at the school I was attending -- a college -- seemed to believe the rapists who went around bragging about what they did and telling everyone I was a slut and deserved it (I am really a slut when I havent had sex in 13 or so years because I am saving myself for my husband.)  Fortunately, the man I am going to marry doesn't believe them. I talked to him and told him they were just jealous because they couldnt have me and are trying to break us up and he believes me over them.  However, for the remainder of the term (it was too far into the semester to drop my classes,) I had to tolerate the ignorant whispers, laughter and rudeness of other students convinced that I 'asked for it.'  It was almost unbearable.  On the bus on the way to school, demented boys would stare and make cheap passes at me and try to intimidate me.  Sounds like high school, huh?  

If I tried to befriend anyone, one of them would tell her lies about me and she'd start to avoid me and act like there was something wrong with me when I was around her.  One girl who I took notes for, who sat directly behind me in one of my classes, and who I was kind-of friendly with began to act that way, but she changed her mind when she accidentally dicovered I was a Christian because of comments I made about Halloween costumes and it being a Satanic holiday.  She looked at me very thoughtfully for a minute and was ok with me from then on, figuring out that the rumors were untrue. She even went so far as to openly defy everyone else and study with me  out in the open in the cafeteria.  When I asked her if she wasnt worried about what someone would say, seeing her with me, she replied, "I don't care.  I like studying with my friends."  I thanked her for her courage of conviction, and we continued studying.

I wrote to a friend in Dallas (an ex-pastor's wife) and confided to her about the rape, hoping for encouragement and support.  Rather than offering any kind of encouragement or support, though, she stopped writing to me, point-blank.  I figure, when you're down, you find out who your friends really are.

Some of the other students, to their credit, didnt change their behavior towards me at all; but they did act extremely curious about the incident, although they didnt question me directly.  One woman later apologized to me, when she began to mistreat me and I put her in her place, telling her I didn't appreciate her attitude and that I was just as good as her and she had no right to mistreat me like she was.  I then got up and changed seats on the bus,after telling her not to speak to me again.

I threatened to report a male student for sexual harrassment when he, before and after repeatedly hit on me knowing I did not want or appreciate his advances.  When I threatened to report him, he stopped.

I did report another male student for sexual harrassment when he began to badger me at the bus stop and wouldn't leave me alone.

I don't want to cut off all of my acquaintances, but I do believe, for me at least, the best way to handle 'friends' who mistreat you after you are sexually attacked is to stop being friends with them, or report them for sexual harrassment, if appropriate, or both.

I gave alot of people something to think about at that school, I assure you.  I got so tired of the mistreatment of so many of them at that school, after it happened, that I started to deliberately sit alone in the cafeteria and not associate with anyone, hoping they would get the point.    

 

       

       


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Posted 17 July 2003 - 08:53 PM

Dear Kaga --

I believe you and I am so sorry for everything that has happened to you, for what it's worth.  Your foster moher sounds horrible.  I'm thankful I didn't have to be in foster care, although my parents weren't terribly compassionate or helpful and they were never "there for me."

I feel so badly for you, you have been through so much.  Just remember, it's not what people think or believe, it's what you know in your heart to be true.

Love and hugs to you -- Lee ( :  


#44 auditorium

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Posted 17 August 2003 - 06:32 PM

I have posted in this topic but I thought I would again. I told my story and NO ONE believed me all i got was those boys would never do something like that it must have been you... But really all any of those people did was make me want to show them they were wrong, to be successful. You just gotta hang in there we can all do it.

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Posted 29 January 2002 - 01:12 PM

Wow, Louise. I am always in awe of your posts.

I dealt with this very issue 14 years ago. I told a few people about the attempted rape and I was literally calld a liar to my face. I believe the exact words were "You are such a liar! He would NEVER do that and besides he doesn't even LIKE you!"

I also got "How could you even say that? I mean, you WENT with him!"

There was also "Yeah right, whatever"  (while laughing) from a guy that I had dated a few times. I consider that calling me a liar.

I remember so well how much this hurt. To the bone it hurt. And these are a few of the responses I received that caused me to put these memories and feelings away so deeply that I would not deal with them for 14 years. Looking back, I wish I had ignored these comments but I was so naive that I actually never thought it was an attempted rape.

If I could do it again, only changing how *I* reacted, I would go with my instincts. My instincts told me that what he did was NOT normal, not deserved by me, not "nothing", and certainly not something that I could just get over. I would trust myself and my feelings. I would have said "I know what happened so who cares what anyone else says". I wish I had the strength at the time to do and say these things. I pray that anyone else that reads the wonderful responses that I know will be posted here will just trust their own feelings and instincts when it comes to this kind of thing.

Unfortunately, Louise, I was not successful in dealing with this so I am not sure that I can really offer advice. But I do know how it feels and how much it hurts. I would like to think that now, so many years later, I would tell a person who would call me a liar to "F*CK OFF!"

I am really interested in reading others experiences.

I do know that the one person who DID believe me was the one who really saved me that night (the friend whose room I stayed in). I have to be thankful that I had him in my life. I will never ever forget him.

Love,
Michelle



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