Premeditation of r*pe?

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Premeditation of rpe? thoughts? poss T*

#31 Guest_violet light_*

Group: Guests

Posted 17 April 2002 - 01:24 PM

(((((hugs for everyone)))))

It's an extremely scary thought, isn't it? I have a lot of experience with criminal psychology (mostly through my work at the police department and my psych/English classes), and obviously I was assaulted. Keep in mind, though, that I'm not a psychologist - I'm no expert; I just have had an interest in psychology for years.

This may trigger, so be in a safe spot, k?

I hate to say it, but yeah, many rapes are premeditated from what I can tell. Mine was premeditated...he had the intention of having sex with someone, of getting a girl to "go out" with him and probably of forcing her to do whatever he planned, even if she didn't want to. And he picked me, but what really infuriated him was that I turned down his advances. So when he heard that I'd left the party, he got a knife and slipped around the outside of the house and waited until I'd turned my back to where he was hiding. Then he jumped me. He had it planned out - he subdued me with the knife and brought me to his car. I later found out that he was planning to take me back to his apartment or something after he'd raped me once.

Obviously, we all know that it's a power thing. Many rapists - again, this is just from my research, I'm not an expert - fantasize about raping someone before and after they do it. It's disgusting. Often, after the fantasies no longer "work" for them, they'll go after someone else. Many rapists are serial rapists.

Take care, everyone.

(((hugs)))
Keli

#32 Guest__*

Group: Guests

Posted 18 April 2002 - 04:53 AM

**Possible t**

It is a vile thought to imagine someone planning such a heinous crime. Practically incomprehensible. This is an issue that I have been dealing w/in T lately. It appears as though my rapist drugged me (which would certainly show premeditation). I had already passed out in the hotel room I was sharing w/some friends & he woke me up, to go for a walk! (WHY?) In addition, he had this lotion next to the bed (in a hotel no less), which he made me use (What was it there for?)

Just thinking about all these things makes me so fucking angry. I must admit that it does help to understand what happened & more importantly to understand the blame belongs w/him! Thanks, Michelle!

Jackie

#33 Louise

Kicking arsenic

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Posts: 15,513
Joined: 15-November 01

Posted 18 April 2002 - 11:56 AM

((((Elle))) ((((Jackie)))) ((((All sisters)))))

Recognizing premeditation is really a huge insight if you didn't before, isn't it? I have experienced it as one of those truly critical moments in healing; a turning point. I agree with Keen's view that it's another layer added on.

Yes, it's infuriating. I was really angry for all of us after I posted this yesterday; what a repugnant thing to be planning to hurt somebody in that way because some fuck has some twisted agenda. (((((Elle)))) I know that after the truth of premeditation clocked me over the head, I felt actually more vulnerable for a while. It's another level of betrayal, of violation. I still feel a powerful sense of violation around that; it was my life and some bastard deliberately plotted co-opting and twisting it to suit his own purpose. How chilling it is to understand that somebody had you marked for that purpose. It also felt for me quite humiliating to know that while I was trying to defuse a situation, he had a completely different outcome in mind.

I think the problem is, or was for me, that I tended to see the rape as happening in a vacuum; the twenty or so minutes it took plus my terrible shame was all I could see for years. But it is rarely an isolated thing; it happens in a context and often in looking at what was happening around it it's possible to see that premeditation.

I think trauma tends to make us focus on our reactions and can leave little room to think about how abusers/rapists think. Also if you yourself are a person of integrity, how hard it is to imagine somebody thinking with a complete lack of integrity. It can actually seem easier to see the rape as a snap decision, and maybe to blame ourselves, than to contemplate something so bloody vicious and awful as planning a violation.
I'm sure I was quite naive and couldn't imagine that somebody could be talking to me in friendly or even loving tones while viewing me as prey. In my own context, the ####### was trying to persuade me back into a relationship. Surely that meant that he was likely to be on his best behaviour?

Ummm...no. I know it was meant to go a certain way, and although it's scary and revolting, I think it decreases self blame because you can start to see how the bastard mapped out a certain fate for you, what he used to advantage, how he sprung the traps.

I think knowledge is power here, even though it hurts. Seeing all parts of the picture, however horrible, can aid healing.

Love

Lou xxxxxx

#34 Guest__*

Group: Guests

Posted 18 April 2002 - 02:48 PM

might T

when my rape occured (take notice! i can say it happened. "it" isn't some weird, vague event. it was rape. i was raped. he took that from me. words are powerful...)
but after it occured i called my therapist. i was living on the east coast of us for the summer and was going back to the west in the fall (i'm from east, go to school west), i called my therapist in tears, obviously shocked about what had happened.
this is when he said, "kat, i know this man. i have met him before. i have sat down with him and talked to him. i have met the women he has hurt. he is so easy to pinpoint once you know what to look for. and this was planned. don't fool yourself, look at how perfectly things unfolded, in his favor".
i had known him for 2 months. he was friends w/ my friends. he would continually ask me on dates and i always refused. he was charming/good looking/funny/smart, but i knew i was going back to school, i figuered it was pointles (also i was just coming out of a relationship).
finally i went on the date. he took me to the nicest french restaurant in town.
he knew my fathers job
he knew my love of russian lit
he knew my major
my hobbies
my family
my friends
what i was like in high school
how i have changed sense
how many times i have been overseas
he said poland was his favorite country (where i used to live)
and that anthropology was the most interesting major (just happening to be mine)
he KNEW a lot.
we talked about politics, we felt the same.
we talked about every issues possible, and we both felt the same passion about them.
this led me to get naive and think, "oh my god, this man really understands me! i have never met anyone like this! how amazing! how strange that he loves everything i do!"
you have to understand, my conversations with him before had been very limited....we spoke of surface conversations, we would mention mutual friends and that was about it. he talked most of the time.
then he did the "tour of my apt" line and i fell right in it. our friends were all in the living room! i felt like there was nothing to be scared of. he was a little upset that i only had 2 glasses of wine, but i told him that i was driving (i thought i had everything down for a safe date)
basically, looking back, i can see what he knew. i asked some friends of mine after it had happened,
"what would he say about me?"
and this one chick kept responding:
"he would never have hurt you. he was falling for you. he always wanted to know everything about you. he thought you were interesting".
by the way, after the rape, when i was curled up crying he said, "i just want you to know that i don't think gays should marry, i prefer paris over prague, and i have never read a russian novel".

#35 Laney

I'll find strength in pain

Group: Inactive Member
Posts: 5,444
Joined: 18-November 01

Posted 24 April 2002 - 02:53 PM

It's funny shell that you bring this up. (well not ha ha funny,but an odd coincidence none the less)

Dave and I talked about this very thing on our honeymoon. (how romantic I know) I'm not going to go into the bulk of our conversation until I talk it out with my t...but needless to say I was astounded as to what extent Eric went to....grrr....

Whether it's premeditated or not it sucks. :)

(((hugs)))

Laney

#36 Guest__*

Group: Guests

Posted 24 April 2002 - 09:21 PM

Quote

I am really having trouble thinking he planned his attack. It makes me sick. Does anyone else out there feel that their r*pe was planned? I am not saying it is harder or easier to get over just that this is adding an extra layer to the ickiness that I already felt about the whole thing.

Sadly, Mine was very planned. I posted my story tonight.
**T** warning on it. I was gang raped and sucked in by the boys fathers. It killed me and The rest of me is still in bad shape years later. You need safety and friends. and Communicate!!
(soft huggs)
Dee

#37 Guest__*

Group: Guests

Posted 20 June 2002 - 01:50 PM

I apologize for boosting this yet again...but...

I am writing here because after what Amy postsd about those awful pigs, it just makes me wonder. You know, what were they PLANNING? Pre-meditation. It just burns me up.

Maybe they didn't PLAN on attacking her but they sure as #### planned on scaring her.

How in the world do you work through feelings knowing that something was so coldly calculated?

If someone figures it out, let me know.
Michelle

#38 Guest__*

Group: Guests

Posted 26 June 2002 - 02:38 PM

(((((((((((((((sisters)))))))))))))))

Premeditation. Just thinking about it makes me feel this rage to the point of nausea.
Definately, I believe most rapes are premeditated. Whether the violater ponders and plans his sick plot over a long period of time or whether he plans it just moments before, IT'S PREMEDITATED in my book. It's not like in manslaugher where we can say that there was a struggle and one person killed another, (although that's not what they wanted to do)....In rape...THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING! I'm so freaking sick of society trying to analyze this and that and put the blame on the victim. I'm sorry for sounding so enraged, but that is what I'm feeling at the moment...please forgive me if this hurts or offends. We are so often told to shut up! God, help us! I don't want to shut up anymore. I don't want to feel this shame and guilt and dirtiness and fear. Do you feel like I do? Or am I crazie? I'm tired of being forced to pretend like everything is ok, tiptoing around and keeping silent, so we don't offend anyone or make them feel uncomfortable! Yes, he planned it and planned it well. HE RAPED ME! KNOWINGLY! CRUELY! BRUTALLY! Nothing I could've done that night would have made a difference. He knew exactly what to do.
He went out looking for me with a plan at hand. I had told him I didn't want anything to do with him. I had told him to get lost. I had seen what he was really like and I knew I had to get out of the relationship. I saw the red flags and got out. But he wouldn't have it. How dare I leave HIM? When he found me at that restaurant, I'm sure he had a plan. When he started to make a scene and I went out to the front door with the intention of telling him to please leave, he knew what he was going to do next. When he dragged me by the hair and carried me forcibly to his truck and forced me in, he knew...when I tried to get out the other way and he grabbed me and began to beat my brains out and bit my face, he knew. As I cried and screamed and he yelled obscenities, and told me that I was a whore and I would see what I was getting, he knew. As he drove out of the parking lot while keeping me in a headlock, I'm sure he planned....he told me, he said, "you're going to see who you are fucking with! No one does this to me!"...he knew....When he forced me out of the truck and dragged me into my own home, he knew what he was going to do next. And when he started to kick me and then raped me, while telling me he loved me,*tears*, he knew. He carried out his plan. His plan was successful. I'm so so sorry if this has triggered or hurt someone. Please forgive me.

#39 Guest__*

Group: Guests

Posted 01 August 2002 - 06:03 PM

It is horrible and scary, that someone could plan something like that out.

As for me, the man who attacked me hid behind ice sculptures of the nativity in front of a church at dusk waiting for someone "right" to go by. Doesn't get much more pre-meditated then that. (He was even willing to do it at -30 degrees celcius in Canada!) Sick b*st*rd.

Funny, I never thought of such a thing as UN-premeditated assault.... guess I assume that they sort of all planned. I mean, you are having to knowingly do something violent to another unsuspecting person... that implies at least some planning to me. A lot of rapists I think plan A LOT.

The cold knowingness and utter disregard for me as a human being really destroyed most of my faith in human nature.

God, I am feeling more anger now then I have felt in years... at HIM not ME for once!

((((((((((((((((everyone)))))))))))))))

Zoe

Boost!

(Edited by Zoe at 9:11 pm on Aug. 1, 2002)

#40 Laney

I'll find strength in pain

Group: Inactive Member
Posts: 5,444
Joined: 18-November 01

Posted 13 August 2002 - 07:34 AM

Several people have raised the question, what rape isn't premeditated. I definately think that when someone is going to rape someone, they know ahead of time. I think the difference is in the details. Do they go to the club with the intention of slipping someone GHB? They don't know who or when, but they know they are going to. Is it a boyfriend or a date who at the beginning of the evening isn't thinking it, but you find yourself alone and they decide that is what they want to do. It's all disgusting. But I definately think some are "More" planned than others. I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference in the end. The results are the same. As we all know, as results of very different experiences. Whether it was attempted rape, date rape, stranger rape, marital rape, rape is rape. It is total violation, whether they plan it for months or seconds.

Take care

Laney

#41 Cil

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Posts: 497
Joined: 27-February 02

Posted 17 April 2002 - 06:17 AM

((((((((michelle))))))

hun i know how you feel, to tell you the truth alot of rapes (espeically stranger rapes) are actually planeed, its sick but its true, they plan to rape people its really sick

I knwo my rape was planned and it disgusts me, He practically begged my friend to come to our house (CIl really misses you blah blah blah) i know from a conversation he had with her now that he planned it becuase of what he said, he had the alchohol and the drugs to make us fullfil his sick needs

i know how you feel, it makes me sick your right it doenst make it worse, but its sick, and your not angering me or i dont think anyone and dont apologise for posting hun ok

(((((michelle))))
luv Cil

#42 Guest__*

Group: Guests

Posted 17 April 2002 - 06:47 AM

(((Michelle)))

Odd you should post this...as I have been struggling lately with the fact that mine was a "premeditated" rape. I believe that he worked to gain my trust, convinced me to leave town with him...and then carried out his sadistic plan.

I do believe that.

I do understand where you are coming from...

Think of men who watch woman, scope them out, learn their routine...yes, I think MANY are premeditated.

Sick...yes.

xo~
D

#43 Guest__*

Group: Guests

Posted 17 April 2002 - 08:58 AM

((((((shelly)))))

thinking of you
samantha

#44 Elle

Group: Member
Posts: 1,297
Joined: 06-August 01

Posted 17 April 2002 - 12:24 PM

The thought that it could have been premeditated turns the stomach, doesn't it? What a scary thought...and yet...it makes sense in a way, fo me anyway.

(((Michelle)) I'm sorry this thought is making it harder to process what what happened to you. It's confusing and frightening to think that that kind of evil could be planned out, calculated. But the fact is that you made it through, no matter what he planned, and that you are healing now.

I'm not sure why the premeditated notion makes me feel more vulnerable. Bears more thinking about...

can't stand to think about it.

Elle

(Edited by Elle at 2:33 pm on April 17, 2002)

(Edited by Elle at 12:10 pm on April 18, 2002)

#45 Elle

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Posts: 1,297
Joined: 06-August 01

Posted 17 April 2002 - 04:29 PM

Hmm. Lou, thanks for posting even though you're not posting.

Using this notion of premeditation as another tool to remind ourselves that we are not to blame...that's powerful. I never would have thought to turn it around like that. Thank you for that!

Elle