Cherry Blossom

Premeditation of r*pe?

94 posts in this topic

Several people have raised the question, what rape isn't premeditated.  I definately think that when someone is going to rape someone, they know ahead of time.  I think the difference is in the details.  Do they go to the club with the intention of slipping someone GHB?  They don't know who or when, but they know they are going to.   Is it a boyfriend or a date who at the beginning of the evening isn't thinking it, but you find yourself alone and they decide that is what they want to do.  It's all disgusting.  But I definately think some are "More" planned than others.  I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference in the end.  The results are the same.  As we all know, as results of very different experiences.  Whether it was attempted rape, date rape, stranger rape, marital rape, rape is rape.  It is total violation, whether they plan it for months or seconds.

Take care

Laney

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(((((((((((((HUGS HUGS & MORE HUGS TO MOM OF 2))))))))))

I AM SORRY-THIS MAY TRIGGER

REgarding my experience, I KNOW that the r*pe was premeditated.  I have no doubt.  He cut the screen in a window to get into my house while I was sleeping. I believe that all sexual assualts are premeditated-the only difference is the time frame in which it was premeditated. I don't know if it makes a difference to know this or not in reference to any more or any less pain or anything for anyone else - I doubt very much that it does.  No matter how or when or how many times it took place for anyone-none of us 'saw' it coming.  It doesn't matter if one is a child or an adult- we SURVIVORS don't 'see' it coming.  OUR innocence is true & real. How we survive & what we do to survive during the 'event' and after the 'event(s)'>(for those who this has happened to more than once) makes us SURVIVORS. Our defense mechanisms 'kick in' to help us.  I am so thankful for those defense mechanisms whether it be the many forms that denial takes us, or the many protective paths that our emotions take us- in other words, all of the stages that we all go through that enable US TO BE SURVIVORS.

It was difficult for me too when I realized that 'HE' premeditated the r*pe.  I am still in some denial in various degrees of many parts of the whole ordeal even though I reported it 3 months after. AND, it took 3 months & not until after I reported it for me to realize much of anything of the truth->that it did happen-> it was premeditated->it wasn't some kind of dream->and that he is dangerous & violent AND belongs in prison.

You are not alone Mom of 2- YOU ARE VERY MUCH A SURVIVOR

You have helped me in chat many times-thank you very much for your support-

Debbie  

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boosting for a very special friend.

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  The two men who attacked me had definitely planned SOMETHING, but I don't know if it was robbery or rape.  (I went to a friend's house to take care of the cat while she was away.)  They were in the bushes next to the garage when I got there.  Whether MINE was planned or not, they could have no way of knowing *I* would be there...

 The hardest thing is that I am certain at least one of them has done this before, based on both what he did and things he said about women always enjoying the pain.

  And he'll do it again...

Lora

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hey ppls

he may not have planned to  rape me that night but he planned on having sex with me whether I said yes or no

- Nikki

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I never even thought about the idea of premeditation before.  I just thought about the attack.  But mine was definitely pre-meditated.  He was a stranger who was just waiting for a victim to come along.  He had the gun in the car.  He had it all planned out.

In a way, it makes me feel a little less guilty knowing that.  Because it helps me realize that it wasn't me, it was just a victim that he was looking for.  Had I not fallen prey to him, another one would have.

So maybe I saved some other girl from the horror that night...

survivor

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I have to agree that some are more premeditated than others.  Mine was very premeditated.  My rapist had picked me out at a club.  Followed me silently for months.  Staked out the building where I lived.  He knew exactly what he was going to do before he broke into my apartment.  Knew exactly when he needed to be out of my apartment before people started their days.  He brought supplies and back up supplies with him.  

It's horribly frightening to think that anyone would go to that much trouble to do something so awful to another person.

((((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))))))))))

Kristi

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**T**

This is such an important topic! I saw a therapist a few days after my rape (who completely sucked and blamed me for "being too nice to people") who had one good insight: The supremely slimey douchebag who raped me absolutely planned it. If not me, somebody else would've been victimized. Woah...a little helpful, a lot disconcerting.

After I broke through that barrier, I began to realize that objects that were in the room I was taken to were actually *weapons.* ((Wow.)) A jump rope. Duct tape. A kitchen knife. All of these things seemed normal at the time -- normal? I'm a smart girl. Just goes to show how fuzzy your mind gets when you're being pinned down, threatened and assaulted repeatedly while begging God or whomever to get you through this so that your mom doesn't flip out when you go missing.

I am so thankful that I had a year to put all of these pieces together before the trial so that I could identify those objects as weapons in court. And I did, and the festering jackass was convicted. The number one weapon I identified? His mind. The number two weapon? His hands. I also made the jury understand that the while other weapons were relatively inconsequential (he didn't use them on me) they were still there.

When I was in high school, I had a premonition in a dream that I would be raped at a beach someday. I distinctly remember waking up and telling my then-boyfriend about the dream. I avoided beaches for a long time. In the end, I met the man who raped me at a beach and gave him a ride back to the resort at which he worked (because I'm "too nice"). People give me a hard time about giving a stranger a ride, but who knows what weapons he had hidden at the beach? (I mean aside from the huge rocks and 35-degree-Fahrenheit water and total solitude...)

In any event, he admitted to me (while pinning me down and bruising my soul) that rape was his number one fantasy. As far as I'm concerned, fantasy is premeditation. It's just a matter of opportunity that prevents the fantasy from becoming reality. He told me he couldn't "keep it up" because I wasn't screaming and thrashing around like the girl in his fantasy. Sorry I couldn't help you out, buddy...real shame.

;)

LM

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When I was about 16 I worked in the local mall of the town I lived in. My friend had a brother who was 19 at the time and of course it was very cool to have an older guy interested in you. He worked at a Tuxedo rental store in the same mall and I went to go see him. We went in the backroom and he played his guitar. When he made a move on me I didn't resist his kiss but then he got this very determined body language (that's the only way I can describe it) and came after me. I don't know if I said no or thought it, but I knew it didn't matter he was going to anyway, and he did. I never knew I could say no and mean it. Being at the time a csa victim, it was normal for me. So much so I asked him to my prom. We went to dinner, then the prom. We had some drinks and I got so wasted it was unbelievable. I could drink fairly well then and in all my adult years and I am 44 I have never felt like that, like I was paralyzed. I couldn't even make coherent sounds. He took me out of the prom, took me to the beach and r*ped me again. It wasn't for many years later, when my husband told me that I was r*ped. I didn't even know, he most likely drugged me. Twice by the same man, to say I felt like a fool is putting it mildly. I don't think I even know how to process how this feels. I have talked with my "T" about this once. Is that enough to process something that feels like it happened in another lifetime? Does this make sense to anyone? This would be definitely premeditated he would of had to bring the drugs to the prom. A girl I worked with who dated him said he did that to her also, I wonder if the guys is still around doing the same things to other women so many years later...sorry for the novel. I guess it needed to be said. Thanks for letting me share!

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i know my assualt was premeditated cause he was stalking me but i didnot know that :(

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In that they had to buy / make the GHB and put it in something i was definitely going to drink yes. They did it several times so it must have in fact been carefully planned.

pixie

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i feel a lot better just knowing someone else was slipped GHB besides me..... i also think it was planned...the guy was mad at me earlier in the night and also resentful towards me.....when i told him i didn't want to sleep with him....he eagerly gave me a popped open can with GHB.....that much was planned.....

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Hi Starry,

I think you are not alone. Many people besides us have been given GHB unfortunately. ONe of my perps was interested in me as well. The first time i remember getting hostility from 'them' was the moment after i indicated i wasn't interested. It was really just body language from me. I just sort of turned away and sat up straight ya know?

then mtw (the other guy) actually sneered at me. LIke how dare you not like him. They were going through a womanizing phase and that's why i didn't like him. It wasn't personal. I didn't hate him or anything. I just didn't think i was the kind of girl someone who was playing the field that hard should date. besides- I was really artsy and he was really frat-sports regular guy. NOt the sorta person i am ever attracted to.

pix

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I am sooooo stupid. The guy who raped me planned to do it. I had told him for a full fortnight that I would never ever sleep with him, or think of him in that way. He was ok and gave me a plausible reason to share a drink with him before we went out with friends.

One drink and I was feeling really unwell, blacking out with him forcing himself into me and if drugging wasn't sufficient to render me compliant, when I did try to stop him he hurt me more and bit me.

I was so shocked afterwards because he was like nothing had ever happened. I knew he was aware I didn't ever want to sleep with him. I couldn't understand why I was so drunk. He was punishing me for being unavailable to him.

I never even heard about drug rape until a year after I was raped.

If I'd known about it, I would definitely have reported it rather than sit there in the A&E in shame in case I'd caught an STD and being stitched up.

Edited by karen

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Ugh..I know mine was premeditated. They came into the house where they knew I was alone and drunk. They hassled me to sleep with them all night. I said no like a thousand times and thought no more of it. Then I go upstairs to the toilet and find them in the bedroom when I come out. I sit down on the bed and the rest is history. How fucking dumb can you get.

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I now know that mine was premeditated, it has taken me a long time to actually be able to say this, though i have always known it. he was my best friend and had always wanted more from me. when me and my long term bf broke up i was heartbroken and he got me drunk and then did what "he had to do".

i think he always knew that he'd have me one way or another, and i really do know that he decided what he was going to do the last time i turned him down. that was about three months before he actually did it. i know it wasn't that long really but just the fact that i know he had thought about it and then decided to do it when i needed a friend really does sicken me.. i still don't know how to get over it. i dont know if i ever will.

Jadey x

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((((((((((scarlett_demon)))))))))))

i just want to sat that you are not "dumb". we all trust people who are meant to be our friends, and i feel dumb alot of the time because the one who did it to me was my best friend (or was supposed to be).

so please don't say you're dumb because you're honestly not.

(((((hugs)))) if ok

Jadey x

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Yes, several of the times that happened to me included a second teacher at my school (the music teacher who was a close friend of my elem teacher) and they included planning before hand.

It's frightening to understand what it means to plan a crime. Something that bothers me is that there was a point where the music teacher knew what my 5th grade teacher was doing to me, and he could have told and saved me, but he didn't.

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Premeditation...no doubt whatsoever in my assaults. But in the one, it was absolute over-the-top planning. He knew his parents would be out of town, he was this totally 'cool", good-looking, smart, wealthy, interesting 18 year-old, I was 15, completely naive and sheltered. We had a movie date. My parents told us to be back at a certain time. After the movie, he didn't bring me home. He brought me straight to his house, saying his mom wanted to meet me. At his house, he immediately offered me an iced tea to drink, and mixed it - a powder mix, back turned to me, and I downed it very quickly, (thirsty from the movie popcorn), asked if it was diet (tasted funny to me), commented that I may need a tylenol after, because nutrasweet always gave me a headache. He locked me in the house with him, stuck the key down the front of his pants, laughing, chased me until I passed out, <screaming and crying, because I just KNEW what was coming, though in all reality I had NO idea my worst idea wasn't even CLOSE to what was coming around that horrible corner >, as he very casually, with absolutely NO concern, no hurry, nothing, unbuckled his belt and pants, took it out, and took off his shirt.

In fragmented memories of images that evening and waking-up occassionally, totally unable to move my arms and legs, I saw that he had too many weapons and "implements" and sick toys all waiting in his bedroom for this to not have been planned. There was a sickness there that cannot even be contemplated. And his manner - so absolutely UNconcerned - so casual, AS IF this was something consensual!!!! Like he had all the time in the world, no worries whatsoever.

Yes, it is a sick f-ing world when someone can plan something so vile.

But planned it was, I was such an easy target. Petite little thing with innocent big brown eyes. SUCH a humiliating PIG, that SOB.

Ran into him recently, most unfortunately. It was even in his eyes then - that he'd planned it all out and that I was the perfect target for his deranged behavior and fantasies.

As for the other assault, I know several other women from the "skater/punk scene" - back in the '80s, where I live that were also assaulted by this A-hole. While they'd all been drunk at parties, or out on dates with him (yes, there were THAT many, how horrible is that...), he'd pulled quite a number on me.

He asked if he could come in (to my house - he was 19, I was 16, my parents weren't home), to use the bathroom...."[He] had to go sooo bad."

Yeah, the bathroom wasn't all he used. Bastard.

They know. In their insolent sick minds, they are just so putrid. And to this day, I would rather be me, and have survived their sickness, than to EVER be them - their sad, pathetic existences must be harrowing.

{{{{{{EVEYRONE HERE}}}}}}}

Remember, we are not stupid, we should not feel ashamed, ever, even though I know we all do from time to time.

We are all SO LUCKY to have survived, and so SMART to have survived, and to be here, this day, to discuss this. For we DID NOT have a plan, we had no defense. Against a offensive with a good play script, we defended ourselves quite well. Hurrah for us!

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Even if it was only seconds before, I believe it was premeditated. Someone said they think the person who raped them planned on having sex with them whether they wanted it or not and I think that's what got into my rapist's mind. Regardless of the mindset, it's still rape.

Things that make me realize it was premeditated:

- He talked about "convincing" his former girlfriend to move in with him, and eventually have sex with him... when previously she'd been morally conservative and didn't believe in living with someone or having sex outside of marriage. That tells me he was used to manipulating and pushing a girl into giving him what he wanted. She, like I used to be, was also meek and not into standing up for herself from the way he described her... so he definitely knew what to look for.

Then he was actually surprised when she broke up with him as soon as she moved across the country and got two seconds away from him enough to think? He also got really evil on her and sent a series of emails that completely ripped her up and down when he found out she'd simply given another guy a good-night kiss AFTER they'd already broken up.

You would have thought this all would have told me to run screaming the other way, wouldn't you? Oh no, I thought he was still such an innocent sweet person who'd simply made a mistake...

- Despite making my own morals VERY clear (no intercourse outside marriage) he pushed for sex several times in the two months we dated, before raping me.

- When we were making out I felt him position himself outside me and I thought "Oh no he wouldn't do that, he knows I don't want to..." and then he did.

- He told me afterwards "It slipped in." I didn't want to believe that he'd really raped me so I bought it, and even slept with him later that day because I felt it was too late to say no anymore... and I think that's exactly what he was betting on, and maybe this was his way of "convincing" me too.

- When I told him subsequently that I regretted what happened and that our relationship would proceed from then on with our clothes on, I was subjected to harassment nearly every day for the last four months we dated on how he didn't understand why I felt it was wrong for us to have had sex, and that "we aren't hurting anyone!"

That's all I kept hearing until I dumped him was how "we" weren't "hurting anyone." Never mind that he had RAPED me, then bashed and invalidated my personal beliefs almost daily - sure nobody was being hurt!

Then when we finally broke up he posted on his Web site that he blamed the "tenets of the Catholic faith" on our breakup. Hey, how about the fact that you're an a**hole who can't respect others' beliefs? I think that was a MUCH greater factor!

Oh and here's the kicker - he tried becoming a Christian to get me back... and when he realized that wasn't going to work (he finally bought a clue after I changed my email address and sent back Christmas cards refused to put a stop to over a year of hassling me under the guise of being "just friends"), he dumped religion altogether and went back to bashing it. As far as I'm concerned his wife can have him.

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premeditated? yes, he had the wine, he had the drug. I had no idea.

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A stranger who drove past me on a country lane. Definately an opportunist. But he had a knife and we're not talking a penknife or the kind of functional knife you might carry in a tool kit in the boot of your car, we're talking the kind of knife you carry just in case you need to threaten people (young girls??!!!).

Premeditated? Driving around with your r*pe kit in the glove compartment on the off chance someone would be available?

Not sure I'm ready to consider this yet...

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**t**

a couple of my assaults were premeditated........

1) The guy "friend" who slipped GHB in my drink...planned to hook-up with me, but I told him I wasn't interested in sleeping with him..he tried talking me into it...when i refused, he took advantage of the fact that I announced I was going to grab myself another drink, in which he eerily over eagerly insisted on getting me the beer......when he returned my can was popped open, yet his was closed.

i remember feeling a lil hesitant, thinking "you should never take an already open drink from a guy"..however, I decided my Little Voice in my head was silly, after all I trusted him, he was a friend, my crush, my bestfriend's boyfriend's friend and fraternity brother, and someone I dated...I felt I could trust him. I took the drink, just drank a little..............then began to feel very very very drunk and put the drink down.....the next thing i know i wokeup being assaulted at his place.......under the influence of GHB.....(however, i later remembered him immediately asking me, are you ready to go as soon as i set the ddrink down)

so that assault was completely pre-meditated.......and I am sure he didn't think of it until I told him I had been assaulted previously.... He was also resentful(that i had not gone very far with him in the past, but further with other people) and angry(i told my friend that he said he didnt like her) towards me that night.....and I think he felt I owed it to him...i only started talking to him that night because i couldnt stand him being mad at me, so i apologized to him, and thats when he started hitting on me......

2) A stranger came through an unlocked bedroom door and assaulted me when i was half asleep next to my boyfriend, i think this was pre-meditated to an extent.......as the person had to come through the door and was continuously staring at me in the dark watching me "sleep"....(this was before GHB incident)

Edited by starry

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Abusing a little girl for years? Waiting until she trusts you enough to strip in front of you? Drugging her? For some reason that I can't quite figure out it was premeditated.

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I don't think the guy who raped me at Uni pre-meditated it at all. I think he just "got lucky" when a blind drunk and alone woman started drunkenly talking to him. With my ex - I don't know if he did. He deluded himself into believing it was consensual which suggests no - but then with someone like that you can't be sure.

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