Cherry Blossom

Premeditation of r*pe?

94 posts in this topic

Premeditation - what a powerful word.

Dealing with date r*pe, or in my case and attempted date r*pe, is difficult enough. But to think that the crime could have been premeditated is almot unbearable for me.

My therapy sessions have been difficult and intense but extremely helpful to me. We have uncovered a lot of different feelings and conclusions, most of which I have shared here. But the revelation discovered by my therapist this past Monday was petrifying. She feels that this attempted r*pe was planned. Premeditated. That he was predatory and almost stalked me.

He searched me out when I was alone in a room. I don't know if I would go as far as to call what he did there sexual assault (he pinned me down and licked my back) but it was certainly disgusting and sick. He was about to try and get my pants down when we were thankfully interupted.

That is when he said "let's go to the other party" and I really had no choice as he had me by the wrist. But I remember thinking "thank goodness, we won't be alone anymore". The thing is, the route we took to the party (which we never got to) was so out of the way. There was a door right next to the dorm room we were in but he took me way to the other side of the dorm and out the side door. This way, we HAD to go by his car. The other door would not have brought us near the car. He ended up forcing me into his car and trying to r*pe me both orally and vaginally. There would be no other reason to go the way we went unles he knew he was going to do this. He dragged me in the door that we should have gone out in the first place and I am sure was going to try again but we ran into some people we knew. He lied about where we had been of course.

When I saw his a few months later at another party, I was not there for 2 minutes when he came over to me. It was like a radar he had - Michelle's here so let the games begin. Who knows what would have happened if I had stayed at that party? I could only take it for 5 minutes and I had to leave.

I am really having trouble thinking he planned his attack. It makes me sick. Does anyone else out there feel that their r*pe was planned? I am not saying it is harder or easier to get over just that this is adding an extra layer to the ickiness that I already felt about the whole thing. How do I deal with this issue?

Maybe it doesn't mean anything. Oh gosh, I hope that this post didn't hurt or offend anyone.

Confused once again, maybe THAT should be my nickname,
Michelle

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((((((((((Michelle)))))))) Unfortunately I don't have much advice on this one... I don't really know if my dad thought about what he was going to do before hand or not :(--not that I have much advice anyway.. but I wanted to let you know that I'm here for you.  I don't know if I can offer much more than hugs but I'll do my best.  I love you sweetie.

((((((((Warmsafehugs))))))))

Michelle

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((((((((michelle))))))

hun i know how you feel, to tell you the truth alot of rapes (espeically stranger rapes) are actually planeed, its sick but its true, they plan to rape people its really sick

I knwo my rape was planned and it disgusts me, He practically begged my friend to come to our house (CIl really misses you blah blah blah) i know from a conversation he had with her now that he planned it becuase of what he said, he had the alchohol and the drugs to make us fullfil his sick needs

i know how you feel, it makes me sick your right it doenst make it worse, but its sick, and your not angering me or i dont think anyone and dont apologise for posting hun ok

(((((michelle))))
luv Cil

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Wow....I've never thought about it before.  I know that the store manager knew what was going.  He was sitting right there, he couldn't have *not* seen the clerk slip into the change room while I was in there.  And he grinned when I finally came out after and laughed at me....
Maybe he was standing guard?  I hope not.  I hope he was just being...I don't know...weird?  It's just...too sick to think about.

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Luis knew...they knew...Luis knew my routines...he knew id be there alone that morning...and he also knew it would be at least 45 min before anyone else showed up...he was waiting..

ugh  no more

Michelle....you know that i love you...you are very special to me and i am here if you need anything.  plese take care sweetie

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((((((((((((((((michelle)))))))))))))

"Does anyone else out there feel that their r*pe was planned?"

I am not sure, but I think the r*pe was not planned...it was a totally normal situation that turned out wrong.
I don't think he premeditatd it, and I am still not sure if he even knows what he has done to me.
Actually, even though he has r*ped me, I don't see him as a r*pist...not the kind of guy who does that...
I know he was drugged at the time, and I think it "just happened"...and I am 99 percent sure he has not done it to someone else, especially now that he's clean.
All that makes it a lot harder to answer the stupid "why" question, but I think this is the reason why I have forgiven him a long time ago...Sometimes I wish I could hate him, but I just can't...

On the other hand, my ex exactly knew what he did. He knew my weak points and used them against me...I am sure he planned his sick actions, and as it went on for several months, I know that he was not just "overcome" by the urge, but that he systematically ab*sed me.
Knowing this and knowing that he has treated at least one girlfriend in the same way makes me see that he just is a sadistic perverted b*stard...I hate him and I don't think I will ever forgive him.

It angers me that at that time I could not see it as clearly as I do now and protect myself from him though...

But..wether an attack is premeditated or not...it is wrong and it ALWAYS is the perp's fault...

--------------
edit: ok by now I have come out with the fact that my rapist and my ex are the same person...I still divide between the rape and the other abuse though...I still think that the rape was not premeditated...
But after having read some of my old diary entries I am not so sure anymore...there were situations before where he said "if you don't do this or that i will have to rape you"...there were situations where he cornered me or lay on top of me, making it unable to get away and said "if i wanted, i could rape you now"
I'm still quite sure that it "just happened" on that particular day, but today i see that he knew perfectly well that I would not dare to scream or report the rape or whatever then...he knew he would get away with it and I bet he didn't even expect me to fight back... and I dare say that while it was not actually planned this time, he would have done it sooner later.

I'm seeing some progress here...I am at the point now where I do not see the rape and the abuse as two very different things, the rape being the unbelievable "this can't be happening" part...it perfectly fits into his whole pattern...

Just wanted to add this, sorry if it may be confusing

Art

(Edited by ArTeMiS at 11:12 pm on June 26, 2002)

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(((Michelle)))

Odd you should post this...as I have been struggling lately with the fact that mine was a "premeditated" rape. I believe that he worked to gain my trust, convinced me to leave town with him...and then carried out his sadistic plan.

I do believe that.

I do understand where you are coming from...

Think of men who watch woman, scope them out, learn their routine...yes, I think MANY are premeditated.

Sick...yes.

xo~
D

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Dionne, i knwo how u feel, its so sick, i cant believe me and my friend were set up the way we were either, its sick it makes me cringe every time i think of it
c
cil

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((((((Michelle)))))

Do I think I was premeditated?  Well I'm gonna have to go one at a time on this one.  When I was molested at school that time I don't know, I know they took advantage of or age size and trust.
  Now what *P* did to me yes that was premeditated the whole thing and once he had broken me there was no need for the gun after the first time he had me beaten down litteraly.
  The other boyfriend I don't think he planned it I don't think he really even knows what he has done.
  The stranger yes, I know it was planned it had to of been he knew where to take me and everything.
  I think it is very sick that anyone would plan something like this but then again they would have to be sick to do it anyways so.  You dod know that i'm here and if you want/ need to talk you can always email me.
  All the love and hugs you can handle
      Amanda

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(Edited by Apple at 4:31 pm on April 18, 2002)
sorry.... just too much to reveal.... felt too exposed.

(Edited by Apple at 4:33 pm on April 18, 2002)

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Oh that's really scary to think about! It could have been.. I dunno.. The "friend" that brought me to the party pressured me into smoking pot for the first time before we got there, then she disappeared so quickly and the guy found me so quickly and I was trapped so quickly.. Ugh! I can't think about this!

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it is another layer added on when you find out that possibly the assault was premeditated.  I am quite sure my b/f (now ex) premeditated everything he ever did to me and because of that I am filled with so much anger and frustration.  I'm not sure if the aquaintance r_pe that happened over a year ago by a friend was premeditated...I often wonder about it, but I don't know if I will ever know the answer to that one.

I'm sorry that it sounds like your assault was.  I understand what your feeling and I wish I could take away that pain.  Sending you some ((((Hugs))))) across the miles.

Always,

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The thought that it could have been premeditated turns the stomach, doesn't it? What a scary thought...and yet...it makes sense in a way, fo me anyway.

(((Michelle)) I'm sorry this thought is making it harder to process what what happened to you. It's confusing and frightening to think that that kind of evil could be planned out, calculated. But the fact is that you made it through, no matter what he planned, and that you are healing now.

I'm not sure why the premeditated notion makes me feel more vulnerable. Bears more thinking about...

can't stand to think about it.

Elle

(Edited by Elle at 2:33 pm on April 17, 2002)

(Edited by Elle at 12:10 pm on April 18, 2002)

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(((((hugs for everyone)))))

It's an extremely scary thought, isn't it?  I have a lot of experience with criminal psychology (mostly through my work at the police department and my psych/English classes), and obviously I was assaulted.  Keep in mind, though, that I'm not a psychologist - I'm no expert; I just have had an interest in psychology for years.


This may trigger, so be in a safe spot, k?


I hate to say it, but yeah, many rapes are premeditated from what I can tell.  Mine was premeditated...he had the intention of having sex with someone, of getting a girl to "go out" with him and probably of forcing her to do whatever he planned, even if she didn't want to.  And he picked me, but what really infuriated him was that I turned down his advances.  So when he heard that I'd left the party, he got a knife and slipped around the outside of the house and waited until I'd turned my back to where he was hiding.  Then he jumped me.  He had it planned out - he subdued me with the knife and brought me to his car.  I later found out that he was planning to take me back to his apartment or something after he'd raped me once.  

Obviously, we all know that it's a power thing.  Many rapists - again, this is just from my research, I'm not an expert - fantasize about raping someone before and after they do it.  It's disgusting.  Often, after the fantasies no longer "work" for them, they'll go after someone else.  Many rapists are serial rapists.

Take care, everyone.

(((hugs)))
Keli

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Well, in my situation, I am sure that it was premeditated. I was dating him for a couple of months although we lived a good 5-6 hour drive apart. His family loved me dearly and almost every weekend they would invite me to dinner even after he and I broke up. His father would always say “I love you like a daughter!” And they always welcomed me with open arms.

The night I was raped, I was at a Bon Voyage party at my former boyfriend’s home. His paternal family was moving overseas and his father wanted everyone there to celebrate and say goodbye. It would be the last time I saw his family...the family that loved me so much.

It rained hard that night, and I was asked to stay in the guest room as I previously have. My former boyfriend entered the room and asked if he could share the bed with me and I agreed. He and I never “slept” together before because he knew my beliefs about pre-marital relations and he respected them. But that night, something weird occurred. He touched me in a way like never before. When we were together, he never touched me that way. I told him I didn’t want to have sex but he did it anyway...not forcefully as far as I remember because I went completely blank...I dissociated.

The reason why I believe it was premeditated is because his family loved me so much that they wanted me to be a part of their family. When I confronted them about the rape a good 8 hours later, their response was “Don’t go to the authorities, just get married.”  “And if you’re pregnant, even better, move up to (city name) with me and marry me.” This was planned...and I know it.

It sucks that a father and a son who I once cared and loved so much could be planning to get me pregnant so I can be a part of their family. A moment of pleasure caused a lifetime of damage.

Sorry to be so lengthy...but I had to get that out of my mind.

Thanks,

Little Sunshine

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(((((Michelle))))))

You always start the most interesting threads that ask really pertinent questions about aspects of sexual abuse. Though I'm "not posting", I really couldn't resist this one.

I notice that other sisters are saying how scary it is that somebody premeditated hurting them in that way. Di, like you, it took me years to see.

I'd always believed that the night I was raped at nineteen, I'd made my ex so mad by refusing to go back into the relationship with him, that he decided just on the spur of the moment to get revenge by raping me.

After healing and the careful reassesment that can come with it, I can see that it was on the agenda all along. I firmly believe he came to my home that night planning to "have" me one way or the other. It was designed as "be mine or be raped"; those were my options.

It's my strong belief, too, that he was trying to impregnate me; always, in the relationship and even when he'd raped me before, he withdrew before ejaculation. This time he didn't, and he also wouldn't get off me afterwards, everytime I tried to get up for about a quarter of an hour, he just pressed himself against me further. It seems to me that he was attemting to ensure not only ongoing power in refusing to let me go, but to make sure his seed stayed where it was....sorry for the gross factor.

Yuck! Yes, it's scary, sisters, when I began to realize premeditation, it was like being slugged in the guts. Horrible. But it certainly put things in greater perspective for me. I found that  didn't blame myself as much once I understood this (though nobody should anyhow).

Fuck those bastards.

Love

Lou xxxxxxx

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Hmm. Lou, thanks for posting even though you're not posting.

Using this notion of premeditation as another tool to remind ourselves that we are not to blame...that's powerful. I never would have thought to turn it around like that. Thank you for that!

Elle

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**Possible t**

It is a vile thought to imagine someone planning such a heinous crime.  Practically incomprehensible.  This is an issue that I have been dealing w/in T lately.  It appears as though my rapist drugged me (which would certainly show premeditation).  I had already passed out in the hotel room I was sharing w/some friends & he woke me up, to go for a walk! (WHY?)  In addition, he had this lotion next to the bed (in a hotel no less), which he made me use (What was it there for?)

Just thinking about all these things makes me so fucking angry.  I must admit that it does help to understand what happened & more importantly to understand the blame belongs w/him!  Thanks, Michelle!  

Jackie

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((((Elle))) ((((Jackie)))) ((((All sisters)))))

Recognizing premeditation is really a huge insight if you didn't before, isn't it? I have experienced it as one of those truly critical moments in healing; a turning point. I agree with Keen's view that it's another layer added on.

Yes, it's infuriating. I was really angry for all of us after I posted this yesterday; what a repugnant thing to be planning to hurt somebody in that way because some fuck has some twisted agenda. (((((Elle)))) I know that after the truth of premeditation clocked me over the head, I felt actually more vulnerable for a while. It's another level of betrayal, of violation. I still feel a powerful sense of violation around that; it was [b]my[/b] life and some bastard deliberately plotted co-opting and twisting it to suit his own purpose. How chilling it is to understand that somebody had you marked for that purpose. It also felt for me quite humiliating to know that while I was trying to defuse a situation, he had a completely different outcome in mind.

I think the problem is, or was for me, that I tended to see the rape as happening in a vacuum; the twenty or so minutes it took plus my terrible shame was all I could see for years. But it is rarely an isolated thing; it happens in a context and often in looking at what was happening around it it's possible to see that premeditation.

I think trauma tends to make us focus on our reactions and can leave little room to think about how abusers/rapists think. Also if you yourself are a person of integrity, how hard it is to imagine somebody thinking with a complete lack of integrity. It can actually seem easier to see the rape as a snap decision, and maybe to blame ourselves, than to contemplate something so bloody vicious and awful as planning a violation.
I'm sure I was quite naive and couldn't imagine that somebody could be talking to me in friendly or even loving tones while viewing me as prey. In my own context, the ####### was trying to persuade me back into a relationship. Surely that meant that he was likely to be on his best behaviour?

Ummm...no. I know it was meant to go a certain way, and although it's scary and revolting, I think it decreases self blame because you can start to see how the bastard mapped out a certain fate for you, what he used to advantage, how he sprung the traps.

I think knowledge is power here, even though it hurts. Seeing all parts of the picture, however horrible, can aid healing.

Love

Lou xxxxxx

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Just wanted to add that I identify two types of premeditation; straightforward plans to commit rape, or planning to commit it if some other agenda isn't met.

It's fucking evil either way

L xxxx

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(((sisters)))

extra hugs for you (((Louise)))

First let me say that I am honored to be the one to get you to "come back" temporatily. :smile:

I have to say that I am so sorry there are so many of us dealing with this but my gosh Louise has said some things that i believe are going to make such a difference in my life!!

To turn this around and put the blame even more on HIM is absolutely enlightening!! I NEVER would have thought of it that way I don't think and I am going to run with it. I am going to try and turn this disgustingly sick notion around and use it in my favor.

I am also going to run with something else you said. That this realization about premeditation can be a turning point in healing. I WANT that turning point! I want it desperately. I want to personally thank and hug each one of you who read and answered this thread. I was wondering if I was perhaps making something out of nothing (I swear I always think that of myself) but i know that it IS something.

It is something very EVIL and SICK and DISGUSTING. But, I am not alone and I am NOT TO BLAME!!!

I love you all. Thank you. And to Miss Lou, what in the world would we ever do without you?

I love you all so very much.
Love,
Michelle

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(((Michelle))) I'm so glad you feel more validated. Thanks again to the fabulously wise Louise and also to everyone who shared. You all really are such incredible sources of inspiration, each in her own way. Each of you has given me so much to think about.

I'm sorry but I got a bit wigged out by what I had posted yesterday and I had to edit it out this morning for two reasons. First, just because I felt uncomfortable with the exposure, I guess it's an issue I'm still working on and that's fine.

The other reason is that I mentioned the possibility that I may have been set up in some way by someone who was a friend. That my rape was premeditated by him and perhaps in some way by her. I was afraid that the way I described her possible motivation would hurt or offend someone here. Nobody said anything but it bothered me since I posted it and this morning I just had to take it out. So I'm sorry if what I said hurt anyone, that was never my intention.

The flip side of this also is clear to me. My friend hurt me very badly and somehow I was also afraid of repercussions of talking about it. The trust issue comes into play again and again for us, doesn't it?

Elle

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might T

when my rape occured (take notice! i can say it happened. "it" isn't some weird, vague event. it was rape. i was raped. he took that from me. words are powerful...)
but after it occured i called my therapist. i was living on the east coast of us for the summer and was going back to the west in the fall (i'm from east, go to school west), i called my therapist in tears, obviously shocked about what had happened.
this is when he said, "kat, i know this man. i have met him before. i have sat down with him and talked to him. i have met the women he has hurt. he is so easy to pinpoint once you know what to look for. and this was planned. don't fool yourself, look at how perfectly things unfolded, in his favor".
i had known him for 2 months. he was friends w/ my friends. he would continually ask me on dates and i always refused. he was charming/good looking/funny/smart, but i knew i was going back to school, i figuered it was pointles (also i was just coming out of a relationship).
finally i went on the date. he took me to the nicest french restaurant in town.
he knew my fathers job
he knew my love of russian lit
he knew my major
my hobbies
my family
my friends
what i was like in high school
how i have changed sense
how many times i have been overseas
he said poland was his favorite country (where i used to live)
and that anthropology was the most interesting major (just happening to be mine)
he KNEW a lot.
we talked about politics, we felt the same.
we talked about every issues possible, and we both felt the same passion about them.
this led me to get naive and think, "oh my god, this man really understands me! i have never met anyone like this! how amazing! how strange that he loves everything i do!"
you have to understand, my conversations with him before had been very limited....we spoke of surface conversations, we would mention mutual friends and that was about it. he talked most of the time.
then he did the "tour of my apt" line and i fell right in it. our friends were all in the living room! i felt like there was nothing to be scared of. he was a little upset that i only had 2 glasses of wine, but i told him that i was driving (i thought i had everything down for a safe date)
basically, looking back, i can see what he knew. i asked some friends of mine after it had happened,
"what would he say about me?"
and this one chick kept responding:
"he would never have hurt you. he was falling for you. he always wanted to know everything about you. he thought you were interesting".
by the way, after the rape, when i was curled up crying he said, "i just want you to know that i don't think gays should marry, i prefer paris over prague, and i have never read a russian novel".

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((((((Pands)))))))

Oh, what a capital #######. How calculating and cruel. He takes stock of you and then uses it against you in such a horrible way. Mongrel-breed bastard.

((((Elle)))))

Women are capable of some fuckawful shit, honey....if you were set up by a "friend" that makes it all the more obscene. It would be easy not to want to see something so horrible. I don't know how anyone could be offended or feel anything other than compassion for you.

(((((Shells)))) thanks again for putting out this question, my darling.

Love

Lou xxxxxx

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