Louise

"You're Lying" - Terrible Secondary Wound

108 posts in this topic

newspaper stories about "False memories"

I take it personally, too, partly because so many LIES are being spread by the "False Memory Syndrome Foundation" and by people who support the whole idea of False Memories. <_< The facts are that a number of studies have shown about 30% of people who're abused as kids will block the memories at some time, sometimes for a long time. Recovered memories are about as reliable as the person's real memories - accurate in the essentials, even if less acurate in the details. It may be that some people mis-identify their abuser... but when it comes to incest? Usually the whole family supports incesturous ideas, y'know? Even if the parents weren't directly involved, they often supported the abuser in some way. :(

My CSA wasn't family abuse at all - but my parents still did things that contributed to it, that made me vulnerable to it. <_< It may be people are "shattering" their families because their family is a mess only none of the rest of them want to admit it. :P

And it makes me crazy that people who can't prove they were raped or abused are assumed to be liars. :angry: Lots of crimes are never solved, and lots of criminals get off because there isn't enough evidence, even though the circumstantial evidence is strong. But people don't assume that, because the guy accused got off, there was no theft. <_< The whole "false accusation" philosophy makes me want to tear my hair out.

Sheryl

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Michelle - I feel that way too. It makes me cringe when I hear that because not only does it make me feel bad, it just reinforces those myths in the minds of those who believe them, so they go along in their day happy in the knowledge that they're the right ones - abuse is all just one big lie right? (sarcasm)

I know, the Courage to Heal talks about how its like the mentality of the abuser, but spread throughout society. Thank you so much for your comments, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who feels this way...

I take it personally, too, partly because so many LIES are being spread by the "False Memory Syndrome Foundation" and by people who support the whole idea of False Memories. The facts are that a number of studies have shown about 30% of people who're abused as kids will block the memories at some time, sometimes for a long time. Recovered memories are about as reliable as the person's real memories - accurate in the essentials, even if less acurate in the details. It may be that some people mis-identify their abuser... but when it comes to incest? Usually the whole family supports incesturous ideas, y'know? Even if the parents weren't directly involved, they often supported the abuser in some way.

Sad but true. I think people want to believe that CSA doesn't happen, either because they were abused themselves but are in denial, or because it's just too terrible to contemplate.

My CSA wasn't family abuse at all - but my parents still did things that contributed to it, that made me vulnerable to it. It may be people are "shattering" their families because their family is a mess only none of the rest of them want to admit it.

Yep. The abuser "shattered" the family, or it imploded by itself. But telling the truth about what was going on does not destroy anything that deserves to stay intact.

And it makes me crazy that people who can't prove they were raped or abused are assumed to be liars. Lots of crimes are never solved, and lots of criminals get off because there isn't enough evidence, even though the circumstantial evidence is strong. But people don't assume that, because the guy accused got off, there was no theft. The whole "false accusation" philosophy makes me want to tear my hair out.

Me too. Can you imagine if there was a "False Memory" Association for people accused of murder, but got off? I mean, the FMSF doesn't know how many of their members are actually guilty (most, I suspect), but can you imagine if they were accused of murder or grand theft instead? The uproar... I can see the headlines now.

It's really just about dismissing and invalidating the survivor, which is why it is so triggering to me. Like, my mother always used to say I was "over sensitive" because I would cry a lot, or get upset. Finally, a few years ago, she said it again, and I said "I'm NOT over-sensitive. I never HAVE BEEN over-sensitive. What I was, and am, is DEPRESSED." Can you imagine a man coming back from war with PTSD, having nightmares, depression, and flashbacks, and his wife saying, "oh, honey, you're so over-sensitive."? :rolleyes:

That's what I like about these boards. People get it, here. :)

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i'm new so i may be replying wrong.

for me, nobody knows yet because i'm so scared they WONT belive me. or will think i'm being overdramatic or looking for attention. if i could even say the words out loud in the first place... it's hard enough to type them.

i keep thinking of this one time in a class discussion about teacher/student relationships (i'm an education major) a girl came forward and said she had been molested by a teacher, and nobody belived her and talked about her for weeks, saying she'd only wanted attention.

i keep thinking of her and how she was treated, and i'm so terrified i'd be treated like that too.

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I never really told anybody about my attacks (except the bare min. explanation for significant others) Why? My older sister reported being abused around the same time as my CSA and when she came out about it my dad ranted about the therapist brainwashing her and how much it hurt the family an wouldnt she just stop? (she did) after that... i just couldnt say anything. I did end up telling about my second CSA and my dad was horrified at the thought i might wanna press charges and everybody would know..

that was the end of talking about things for me

but really burns my tail is when my stepson came forward... and the authorities point blank told my husband that he thought it was made up to dispute the custody case.

I mean..

come on now... what 5 year old boy can describe sodomy and oral sex?!?!

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I believe in a way this can go for all kinds of abuse and not just sexual abuse or rape.

For the assault alone that happened three months ago. When it first happened one of the people who are the closest to me said to me maybe you should talk to him. At the time I just gave her a dumb found look and said NO and she just said that it was ok knowing that I could blow up. The other comments that have been told me are:

"Well you won't report him so it is not true"

"Oh he is not the type"

"You don't have anymarks"

"You didn't put up a hard enough fight"

There are times when these statements are so overwhelming that I just stop saying anything because I am better off because I am known for getting to mad and ending up throwing a punch if I am not very careful.

I do again believe this is with all types of abuse though because even when I was a child living with my mother when I first told her about the molestation she looked at me directly and said that is not fucken true because I was right there.....yeah well I just sat there and said what ever knowing that she was not right there she was in bed.

The physical and emotional abuse with my mother was the worst though.

Child Protective Services even told me the emotional abuse did not exsist because I was not having any trouble in school and I had no emotional problems except for depression which was technically not diagnosed at the time. I looked them directly in the face and told them I would not show trouble in school because first it is my safe place, second I want to get the hell out of my house, and third if I ever bring a greade lower than 85 I can expect a kick in the ass and if I got lower than 95 I was grounded and when I got lower than 100 I was in a lecture of four hours long (mind you I got a lot of those 100 are not a possible thing). The CPS worker looked me back and said well there is nothing I can do call us when she hits you again. My response was oh thanks and I picked up my stuff and left....I was later given detention for my rudeness but I didn't care. It hurt incredibly bad to be disbelieved by an authority.

In all all the secondary wounding has hurt so bad, With the assault I have come to the point of not telling along with any of the previous abuse I am so sick of being hurt again about the same thing.

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False memories? Give me a f***ing break...

There's so much more to memories than just visual pictures. People can be so f***ing stupid.

Edited by SurvivingTheStorm

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I had to go to the GUM clinic a couple of days ago (to test for STI's) and the doctors I was talking to knew what had happened and they read my record and found out that it had happened twice...around a year ago my drink was spiked. The man said something like "To stop putting yourself at risk you shouldn't drink, blah blah blah." So what, just because I was drinking that makes it alright and it's inviting people to hurt me? I was quite shocked to be honest...unless I was overreacting? What happened to me this year I hadn't even drank that much. It feels like he said I was asking for it. :(

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I truely appreciate this topic, I always felt as though I was alone in this sense.

I've only told one person about my 'incident' and that my current girlfriend. I couldn't even use the word...rape. but 3 years later I feel as though she thinks I'm lying, she's emotionless when I have triggers or I feel scarred because of it.

Also people who I have seeked advive in have all told me its in my head.

It just makes me feel even more ashamed.

Shen.

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my own mother and brother accused me of lying. both of them know i am not because they both lived in the house where it happened. it made me physically ill and i didn't tell anyone again for a long long time

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I haven't been told that I'm lying so much as I just get invalidating responses. :( Like "well, it couldn't have been that bad, I mean, you stayed there for a month..." or acting like I must have wanted it at least sometimes 'cause how could it be rape every single time? And with the stuff from my childhood, it's like "maybe you're remembering wrong" or "she was younger than you, I don't see how it could have been as bad as all that..." And part of it comes from my own head, like I keep trying to invalidate myself, but I HATE when people do that. :glare::down: My so-called "friend" told me that I "definitely lost my virginity because I wanted sex" at some point with my ex. :blink: Like because at that moment, I was acting like a normally sexually functioning adult, it meant that I deserved it in some fashion, or that it wasn't as horrific as I thought it was. It's the most awful feeling in the world. :(

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newspaper stories about "False memories"

I take it personally, too, partly because so many LIES are being spread by the "False Memory Syndrome Foundation" and by people who support the whole idea of False Memories. <_< The facts are that a number of studies have shown about 30% of people who're abused as kids will block the memories at some time, sometimes for a long time. Recovered memories are about as reliable as the person's real memories - accurate in the essentials, even if less acurate in the details. It may be that some people mis-identify their abuser... but when it comes to incest? Usually the whole family supports incesturous ideas, y'know? Even if the parents weren't directly involved, they often supported the abuser in some way. :(

My CSA wasn't family abuse at all - but my parents still did things that contributed to it, that made me vulnerable to it. <_< It may be people are "shattering" their families because their family is a mess only none of the rest of them want to admit it. :P

And it makes me crazy that people who can't prove they were raped or abused are assumed to be liars. :angry: Lots of crimes are never solved, and lots of criminals get off because there isn't enough evidence, even though the circumstantial evidence is strong. But people don't assume that, because the guy accused got off, there was no theft. <_< The whole "false accusation" philosophy makes me want to tear my hair out.

Sheryl

Could you tell me where you found this research? I'm not asking to challenge you on it, but because I really, really need your help citing this for work (I work at a coalition against sexual assault for my state)

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A couple of years ago this guy befriended me online for the purpose of gathering info to use to stalk/harass me which he then did. He and his friends found and spammed an eating disorder support group that I had been a member of for several years. One thing they said repeatedly was that I "lied about being r*ped to get attention" which is not true. On that board it became something of a running "joke" that is what I did.

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non of my frends beleve me and it hurtis so muc to no i finell fond the strenf to opien up to be caled a lyer and los my frends xx

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I am so glad that I found this forum before trying to talk to anyone about it in person, especially since what happened to me sort of falls into a gray area. When I distance myself from what happened and look at the facts (I was significantly more drunk than he was, I never gave consent, he knew that I was already extremely emotionally fragile and vulnerable) it seems like rape. But when I think about everything else, I find myself hesitant to use that word. I feel like people would say I'm exaggerating or that I'm just trying to get back at him because I realized he was only using me for sex or that because I didn't try to stop him it wasn't actually rape. It didn't even occur to me that it might be rape until a few weeks after when I noticed that I hadn't done anything social since it happened, I was avoiding talking to people, and I was eating about half as much as I used to. Even if it doesn't fit the very narrow view that most people have of rape, it is still affecting me as such. I just wish I could trust someone that I knew would take me seriously....

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The first guy I ever had sex with took in my rapist and told me I was a lying brat an how could I do that. He later ended up telling me that my rapist had confessed to him and would my mother give them a ride to have the rapist turn himself in! The stupidity is alarming. I had a close friend who fell in love with the rapist a couple months before the rape that told me she didn't believe that he could do such a thing and wanted to hear exactly what happened. I think those two things broke my heart. I would never do anything to ruin someones name and to be told I was lying was like it was all happening again.

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The first guy I ever had sex with took in my rapist and told me I was a lying brat an how could I do that. He later ended up telling me that my rapist had confessed to him and would my mother give them a ride to have the rapist turn himself in! The stupidity is alarming. I had a close friend who fell in love with the rapist a couple months before the rape that told me she didn't believe that he could do such a thing and wanted to hear exactly what happened. I think those two things broke my heart. I would never do anything to ruin someones name and to be told I was lying was like it was all happening again.

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my mother, who is a survivor herself didn't believe me when I told her about the CSA some years ago. Later I thought she believed me. Because she was attending survivor groups and all kinds of stuff. Then, about 2 years ago, I talked to her and realizzed that she still doesn't believe it. She demands to know *physical* details *puke!!!!!!* to prove it.

That was the moment when I decided I can't have a good relationship with her, ever.

Qm

There are so many things that I thought only happened to me. But as I continue to read posts I realize that maybe few things were unique.

My mother was also a survivor. She did not believe me.

She told me *it did not happen and

*she would have known if it did, because of what she went through, so it didn't

happen

*if I really knew what it was like to be r****, I never would have said this.

*she wanted the details too and used them to refute my story (he didn't do that,

he doesn't like to do that)

She told social services I was lying and making a false report, that I was jealous of my stepfather. Sadly they believed her. With no evidence, it was hard to "prove". No evidence I was a liar either, but easier to believe that it was just teen angst.

It makes it really hard to tell folks what happened. I always expect that no one will believe me. I know in my head it's not true, but my heart is too afraid.

So sorry that so many people have been through this. It makes me sad.

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This is my first post here. I'm glad there's a place for us to talk openly and honestly about what has happened. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has endured many years of abuse. When I told my parents what happened, my mom told me it was my fault bc at 5yrs old I should have told her. 2 years ago I saw a pic of my molester holding a young child. Things spiraled out of control when I told my mom, who then called the parent of the small child. The mother told my mom that it wasn't me who was abused, it was MY BROTHER who abused my molester's SISTER! They told me that no one believes me and that I have the facts all wrong. This invalidation has really stayed with me. I feel like I will never be the same. Sometimes I question if he really did molest me for several years growing up. I know in my heart he did because I remember each and every graphic detail!

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For me being accused of lying was extremely tough because of who it came from. I was raped by a friend and of course we had mutual friends. I kept it to myself mostly but I turned to one friend for support and we later started dating. Before it all happened then two were close but after my supporter hated the rapist. However I began to see myself being treated poorly and told the supporter I couldnt be with him it wasnt right for me at that time and he changed so much. When I saw him become closer than ever with my rapist I was crushed. When I confronted him he said "he told me he never laid a hand on you" "why do you want me to think he did youre sick" I couldnt believe it this is the guy that held me while I cried and talked me through my panic attacks and self harm. All I said was "we both know he laid his hands on me. He always kept a hand on me even when he was away from me." Later I tried to keep one of my best friends from getting in his car by telling her he's a rapist and she didnt say anything she even watched as he slammed me into the side of the car. Finally I had enough courage to tell my girlfriends and they said "thats not really rape. If he made you perfrom oral it wasnt rape because youre the one who did it. You should have just kept taking the beating he would have probably stopped." I guess I just get angry I mean I dont want their pity but they have no right to talk about what I should have done or how I should feel and they definitely have no right to tell me im wrong. I know its hard to believe a friend could do that it happened to me and I still had trouble accepting it but one of the only things that helped me deal was knowing he was our friend he could have done this to one of my friends or my sister and in that case im glad he chose me if only to keep him from doing it to them. So yeah I get mad when people dont believe me I dont know how to not be enraged by it I mean it really hurts.

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The most refreshingly obtuse response I have ever gotten was from someone who claimed to have a "scientific bent" and then proceeded to ask probing questions to make sure that I was telling the truth. F*ck you Perry Mason, if I could make stuff like this up I'd be raking in millions by penning global best sellers, instead of wasting my time with you.

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My son is 4 and people are so quick to suggest he lied or made a mistake. Says he doesn't understand and doesn't know how to talk ect.

It's one thing for people to think maybe he made a mistake but to say it to me... it hurts me to my core. That's my baby and I am protecting him by keeping him away from the man he says abused him... he's not capable of lying but somehow a 4 year old is?!?

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To be said that ur lying, is like someone ripped you all over again..... and that someone is a close friend for 20years, is just make everything worse... the feeling of not having a support system and anyone to believe is sh***y

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Hi iamnya,

I agree! I'm sorry if your friend of so many years questioned you. I'd say that person wasn't much of a friend. We don't do that here because we've all been through it. I believe you!

hug.gifhug.gifhug.gif

Peace to you,

Susan

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Thanq Susan,, i understand that it is a common reaction.. but it still hurt to the core

♡♡♡

-tonya-

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Posted (edited)

I had never thought about the concept of secondary assault until I read Aphrodite Madaskis's book last year. Actually, that isn't quiet accurate. I felt the pain of secondary assault but never framed it clearly until I read Aphrodite Madakis. It never crystalized. Therefore, I never gave it the weight that it deserved. After reading about secondary assault and having it named, that pain had a name and a setting. For me, fifty years passed!! yes, fifty years and oddly, via the Web, I reconnected with my old boyfriend...Mr. Secondary Assault. He began by apologizing for his behavior fifty years earlier. He had said he had often thought about me and wondered what had happened to me. I was stunned that he every gave me a thought

In 1967, after a party at my boyfriend's house, my boyfriend and I went to bed and had sex. His parents were away. My boyfriend left the room, a party hanger on, came in the room, locked the door and raped me. When he released me, I was hysterical. My boyfriend took me home, told my mother that we had been in a car accident to explain my battered face and disheveled appearance. I had been so crazy about him.

I was angry, confused and a few days later, when I talked to my boyfriend, he told me that if I told anyone or reported it, that he would have everyone at the party swear that they all had sex with me and that it was consensual. I just collapsed inside. I was done in by his final treatment of me but I didn't have enough strength to say or do anything. His father was a rich attorney and they lived in a beautiful, rustic farmhouse. When we reconnected, fifty years later, my boyfriend was afraid if I pressed charges, his father, or he would be in trouble, scandal, at least. After that, he didn't contact me, didn't call to see how I was, nothing. A few months later he and a friend packed up his car and moved from Penna to California.

At the time, I had confided in a friend who was an attorney and I told my boyfriend that I had talked with him. My boyfriend said that my friend/attorney had called his father, who was a very prominent attorney, and told him my story to try to impress his father. I was further disappointed that my friend had betrayed my confidence. For fifty years, I accepted that story as truth.

Fifty years later, when my boyfriend and I reconnected, I learned the truth. I learned that my boyfriend had made that up. So for fifty years, I had believed that my friend had betrayed me.

Anyway, it was great reconnecting and getting to look at that event and my old boyfriend again. He apologized. We e-mailed for about six months. Fifty years earlier, I felt so devastated, beaten, sad, alone.

During the fifty years, I built a life. I have a wonderful husband and I am happy. It took a great therapist and a lot of work but I survived and thrived. I could look at my old boyfriend with clarity. He was gorgeous fifty years ago. I was so enthralled with his looks, his family, yes...his wealth.

Fifty years later, he was much less important to me. He was not particularly impressive. He had not done much given all his opportunities. He did not seem to have grown into a better person. He seemed to me to be lacking. He seemed to me to be a person who could have been so much but had just kind of remained. He never married. He moved from California back to the area where we lived. For years when I thought about him, I had assumed that he would have soared to remarkable heights. He had not.

Edited by Sutton

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