Louise

"You're Lying" - Terrible Secondary Wound

108 posts in this topic

Hello my friends.

I'm starting this thread because I hope that it might be helpful to people in future.

It has been spurred in part because of what another member has had to deal with, and because of my own memories of what being accused of lying about the most painful events in my life felt like. As I have thought about what that was like, I have asked myself so, Lou, how would you deal with it now?

And I still don't really know. I mean, I coud deal with it given time and calm. But immediately, it feels like a bucket of shit dumped over your head, only that would be less degrading. It still seems to be such a painful area.

I am very strong around what happened to me. I know the truth of.

But  a few months ago, a woman picked my story apart on her website and critiqued it piece by piece. I wondered if I would ever stop crying. Some of you mailed me to ask where the #### I was. I was trying to stitch my innards back into my guts. It was so hurtful that I came closer than I have come in years to SI'ing.

I told you guys, and I remember how restorative your support was..

Aphrodite Matsakis, author of "I Can't get over it: A Handbook for Trauma Survivors" calls disbelief and invalidation a "secondary wound". It is that in a very real sense and can delay healing dor some time.

Why is it so painful? Why is it so horribly hard to defend against? Can we talk about strategies for dealing with it?

I will share with you some of the things I heard after I was raped:

"If it had been true, you would have reported it".

"You whore. You really wanted it"

"It wasn't true because he was your partner"

"You must be lying because you went back to him".

"You're crying rape to pull the wool over people's eyes to cover up for your own immorality".

"You stupid slut. Haven't you heard the saying Confucious say no such thing as rape. Woman run faster with skirt up than man with trousers down".

"You're just saying you were raped so you can evade responsibility for pregnancy".

"Doubting that it was rape is a sure sign that it wasn't, despite your feelings".

"You say he raped you several times? Oh come on. Why didn't you do anything about it?".

"You want to spare a thought for these poor girls who were really raped and stop your whining".

"You want to watch your mouth. You go around saying things like that and some poor bloke will end up in trouble".

For childhood:

"Oh come on. How could somebody rape a child and nobody know?"

"Haven't you heard of that new false memory syndrome? Is it that, do you think?"

"That's an awful story to tell. Are you after attention?"

Some of the more ridiculous ones were:

"You go on about this rape shit because you just hate men".

"You are wishful thinking".

"Radical Feminist Dyke Bitch!"

Yadda Yadda Yadda...Or I didn't hear anything. Just an embarrassed silence, which implied to me that the person didn't believe me.

Or Worst of all, some person publicly dissects your story piece by piece with bullshit. Which it might be, but it still hurts.

If I had time to gather myself, I could easily repond to each of these things. I'm good at sticking up for myself, but only after I've calmed down, which can take awhile. At the time, they hurt so badly. They still can, though I tend to bounce back much faster.

I would like to think that I could be strong enough to say, "ok, you believe what you want to believe. I know the truth and I don't have to be bothered by your ignorance or deliberate cruelty".

I know that it used to make me have flashbacks to him on top of me, and I would feel the worst shame. I used to go bright red and just crawl away and find a corner to cry in.

I felt as if defending myself against such statements meant that I thought I was worth something. That if I made too much out of what he did to me, I was trying to be better than I was. Does anybody know what I mean? I didn't respond at all; it would have been to shameful to say, "but it did happen. I was raped".

I don't think I'm worthless now. But I still find accusations of lying very disarming. It hurts very badly.

My strategies now would be:

To get iummediate support when it happens.

Realize it's not about you, but somebody else's ignorance and/or cruelty.

Read material which validates you. How glad I was to find David Finklehor and Kersti Yllo's study on rape by partners. Not only did it plainly say that rape by a sexual intimate was "real" rape, it also explored the ways in which women vicimized in this way are especially damaged. I just kept thinking "yep, that's me".

Ask yourself if the person accusing you of lying is actually worth responding to or not? You do not deserve further humiliation, and defending yourself and what happened to you to some assholes can just result in more of that. There are some people who will not understand, and some who deliberately choose not to understand. It doesn't matter how you put it to them. You are better off telling them to fuck the #### off, and that you will not tolerate their insults on you.

My friends, it's something many of us have been burned by. Would you like to share what you've experienced and how you dealt with it, if you did? If you weren't able to, how do you think you would now?

I want to hear from you. And I hope others might be assisted by what we say. It's so deeply hurtful...and as I say that, I bear in mind that I could be generalizing. There may be some of you who can say "I don't give a shit if I'm believed or not. I know the truth". What makes you able to be like that? Can you advise sisters hurt in this way?

If you haven't experienced this secondary wound, how do you think you might deal with it if you `did?

If you want to share, I really want to know.

Love

Lou xxxxx

(Edited by Louise at 1:58 pm on Jan. 29, 2002)

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((((((Lou))))))))

Could be *T*

For years I kept my secret, thinking that I was protecting my mother.  Then one night about a year or two ago, I came very, VERY close to giving in and ending it all.  Instead of doing that I blurted some of my story out.  My mom looked at me in dismay and said "Are you sure you didn't dream this up?"  "Are you sure you're not lying?"  Those were the very words I was terrified of hearing.  I lost it, vowing then nad there never to tell her another thing.  And I haven't.  I still can't forget those first words.  True, I gave her a shock, but she could have THOUGHT before she spoke.  

I told my half-sister, who was abused when SHE was a child.  her response was to compare my pain to hers and to tell me WHY her's was worse.  it made me feel so small.  So alone.

I told a friend and she said "Can we talk about something else?  This is disgusting."  I didn't know what to do.  I hung up on her and started punching the walls while screaming and crying.  I can still feel that pain, how betrayed I felt.  

My best friend said "Move on, it happened when you were a kid and it doens't matter now.  YOu're just making a mountain out of a mole hill."  My best friend.  What would my enemies say?  He still tells me to move on and forget about it, that other people suffer worse.

I have heard every reason as to WHY i should have told, but no one understands my reasons for not.

I believed him when he said he would kill me.  He killed my pets, so why wouldn't he kill me?  Yes, he was my brother.  Yes, he was a child himself.  But he thought NOTHING of tying me to a chair and setting my skin on fire.  He thought nothing of pressing lit sparklers in my back or of holding me under water until I passed out.  I lived in a constant state of fear.  I believed him.  He used to hide under my bed with a knife.  Why wouldn't he kill me?  Why DIDN'T he kill me?

No one would have believed me.  My brother is a very charming sociopath.  He can convince you the world is ending, all while wearing a smile on his face.  He told my mohter, hwen I was 8, that I "LET" him do things. Let him.  I was 8, he was 13/14.  Who let who here?  

It hurt being ignored.  To me, it validated that I desevered it.  He stabbed me with a pair of kitchen sissors, bad enough that I had to, in later life, have three surgeries to repair damage.  BUT i'm to blame.  I made it up.  I should move on.

And this is hard to share...

When I was 7, he told me that he'd kill someone I loved if I ever told.  Though I never told her, I think she suspected.  I mean come on, I wore long sleeves in the summer, and was covered in bruises.  But she probably thought it was my mom or dad.  Anyway, she used to pull me aside, give me hugs, and tell me that I was special.  She said if I ever needed to talk, that she'd be there.  I believed her.  But one day I came to school to learn that she had been murdered by her boyfriend.  I thought it was my brother and he didn't bother to tell me otherwise.

But I was lying.  I was making it up.  her death so traumatized me that I forgot she ever existed.  But whenever I heard the song "Candle on the Water" (which she sung to me), I broke down sobbing.  I still can't hear that song and not cry.

Just to remind me NOT to tell he burned the one place down that i felt safe.  Put all my toys in there (a fort) and burned it down.  Who could I tell?  How do you confess when you live in the middle of dysfunction?  My mom was emotionally abusive and psychological abusive..could i really have turned to her?  No.  not then, and maybe still not now.

But I was lying.  #### it, I don't lie.  I know what it's like to be lied to.  he told me he'd never hurt me.  

Sorry...i rambled too long and I'll shut up.

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((((Lou))))

I am sorry that you had to hear all of those terrible things.  I am so glad that you are at a point in your life that you can realize those people are idiots.

I know just the thing you are talking about.  people often ask why i stayed with my ex for so long if he hurt me.  IF?!?!?!?!  yeah.  sure.  Most of those people are thankfully out of my life.

When I told my mother that I was pregnant, and that I had been raped, she told me to "Stop hiding behind the word rape"  she was #### bent to believe I had an affair.  (she still thinks that)

Yesterday I had a 2nd birthday party for Patrick.  Both Dave's (my fiance) family, and Johns(patrick's dad) family was there.  John's mother made some stupid comment about how I should "stop flaunting my affair with Dave in everyone's face."  she went on to say that she didn't believe I was raped in the first place.  it was a "scheme" that Dave and I cooked up so we could be together.  Lou, when you said <i>"I know that it used to make me have flashbacks to him on top of me, and I would feel the worst shame. I used to go bright red and just crawl away and find a corner to cry in." </i>  Yup, that is basically what I did.  Instead of telling her where to shove it, I just left my house.  Ran away.  Luckily for me, the others who were there wern't content to let her go unpunished.  :)

Thanks for bringing this up Lou, I think it could really help us all feel less shamed.

(((hugs)))

Laney

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Wow, Louise. I am always in awe of your posts.

I dealt with this very issue 14 years ago. I told a few people about the attempted rape and I was literally calld a liar to my face. I believe the exact words were "You are such a liar! He would NEVER do that and besides he doesn't even LIKE you!"

I also got "How could you even say that? I mean, you WENT with him!"

There was also "Yeah right, whatever"  (while laughing) from a guy that I had dated a few times. I consider that calling me a liar.

I remember so well how much this hurt. To the bone it hurt. And these are a few of the responses I received that caused me to put these memories and feelings away so deeply that I would not deal with them for 14 years. Looking back, I wish I had ignored these comments but I was so naive that I actually never thought it was an attempted rape.

If I could do it again, only changing how *I* reacted, I would go with my instincts. My instincts told me that what he did was NOT normal, not deserved by me, not "nothing", and certainly not something that I could just get over. I would trust myself and my feelings. I would have said "I know what happened so who cares what anyone else says". I wish I had the strength at the time to do and say these things. I pray that anyone else that reads the wonderful responses that I know will be posted here will just trust their own feelings and instincts when it comes to this kind of thing.

Unfortunately, Louise, I was not successful in dealing with this so I am not sure that I can really offer advice. But I do know how it feels and how much it hurts. I would like to think that now, so many years later, I would tell a person who would call me a liar to "F*CK OFF!"

I am really interested in reading others experiences.

I do know that the one person who DID believe me was the one who really saved me that night (the friend whose room I stayed in). I have to be thankful that I had him in my life. I will never ever forget him.

Love,

Michelle

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(((((Lou)))))

It just sucks. I'm sorry for all those awful things said to you, that must have felt like a slap in your face and a stab in your heart.  And I was really struck by what you said about how it's not about me really, it's about people's ignorance and/or cruelty.  I'm going to try to remember that.

I haven't really told many people.  My mother accused me when I was a teenager of "spending too much time" with my stepfather, and she had an insane jealousy and behaved competitively towards me...she was hateful towards me, like I was trying to steal her husband. She taunted me about my "special relationship" with him, like I really must be such a sex-crazed whore to always want to spend so much time with him.....she really messed with my head, to put it simply.  It was so hard and confusing to hear my mom saying these things, and I will never understand why.....so many whys.  Why was it easier to say those things than for her to acknowledge the abuse and help her child?  I'll never understand....It was somehow easier for her to unleash her rage on me than on him, even though I had told her when I was nine years old what he was doing.  She's still got her head in the clouds, to this day.  I just don't even bother with trying with her, anymore.  I never mention any of it.  I seek support elsewhere.  

You're right, it is a secondary wound, and a subject that really needs discussion.  So many times, we are re-traumatized by those in our lives who are supposed to love and support us.  I know it's hard on our loved ones sometimes, dealing with us, but God knows we don't need extra guilt unfairly heaped on us.  It's just so very confusing and hard to understand.  I'm tired and rambling, so I'll stop now.  Love you, Lou.

((((safe hugs))))

Tash

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This isn't the same but is related i think

I never told anyone before coming here, but once I tried telling my bestfriend. I started kindof bringing up how I felt being physical with guys, how I didn't enjoy it. I didn't identfy what happened to me as r*pe at that point, my plan was to bring it up slow and then ask her what she thought about what happened to me.

She told me it was normal to not enjoy being physical with a guy the first time or the first few times. So I figured there must be something wrong with me for thinking there was something wrong about what happened to me. I didn't bring it up again.

samantha

(Edited by samantha at 2:23 pm on Aug. 16, 2002)

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(((((Sisters; hugs for you all)))))))

((((((Kelly)))))) Why don't others go through what you did and then they can see how easy it is to "move on"; how little it "matters". What the #### is wrong with people?

And just for the record, sweetie, your honesty is beautiful.

((((((Laney))))))) I hope that fucking woman was ordered out of your house. I suppose that I find others being prepared to stand up for me helpful and I hope you did too.

((((Tasheroo))))) darling...your mother is unbeleivable. How sad for somebody to think you could want your childhood to be stolen in the way it was.

(((((((Samantha))))))) When your pain is unacknowledged, it does seem like the implication is that you're exaggerating in some way doesn't it? God, who'd want to exaggerate such pain?

((((Michelle)))))) "Fuck Off" sounds like a good response to me!

L xxx

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(((((Lou))))) you call it honesty (as do I), but others call it being a bitch.  Go figure.

One question I failed to answer was how do I deal with it all....  :::thinking:::  I write.  My main characters endure the pain I can't deal with.  Most of the time I keep it inside, which I know isn't the best.  But I do tell my current best friend when things are bad.  And now I have Pandy's :)

Kelly

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Those of you who told are braver than I.

I never told my family. I still haven't and do not plan to. Ever. Rape, abuse, weakness, and even therapy are things that happen to other people. Not us. And if it happens to us, we don't talk about it. We're stronger than that. I love my parents but I don't know how they could understand. The thought of hashing it out with them hurts too much. Better not to.

Of my friends, I only told one female friend about 10 years later. Her response was OK. She believed me without question but when I told her I hadn't told before because I felt alienated and afraid, she told me that was my own fault. That she would have supported me had I told her. That being alone was an illusion of my own creation. Those words hurt but may well be true. I don't know, though, if given her own personal problems how she could have supported me. We were very young. I'll never know.

I did tell some men I dated -- only because it was evident I had "issues" around sex and intimacy. Being terrified for example. You all know the drill. Nightmares, flashbacks, panic attacks etc etc ad nauseum.

Louise, I think the list of comments you heard pretty much sums up my fears, why I never told. Especially the blame issue. I suffered so much guilt because I didn't do more to save myself the night of my ordeal. I was afraid of someone voicing that for me. Nobody has, maybe because I never gave anyone the opportunity. I can't imagine surviving that on top of my own feelings. You are a brave woman -- or should I say women, all of you who told.

Elle

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(((Lou)))

***Might trigger***

It just sucks to hear such bullshit, doesn’t it? For many years, I kept my childhood abuse silent. Around the age of 20, I began to experience very bad nightmares and flashbacks relating to the abuse. Everything stopped once I told my mother, thankfully she believed me.

However, when I was raped a year ago, all I heard were horrible and mean comments when all I needed was support.

These are statements and comments made by my family:

-“That’s what you get, you don’t sleep in the same bed with a boy.”—What’s so wrong about this people?

-“Why didn’t you kick his ass?”—I disassociated dammit!

-“Why didn’t you scream?”—I was scared, what the fuck!

-“You deserved it.”—Did I really deserve this? Really….?

-“It’s hard to believe it, how did you let that happen.”

-“How could you let him take advantage of you?”

-“You were asking for it by wearing such sexy underwear.”—He wouldn’t have seen them until he raped me, what the fuck?

These are the comments of the fucking dirty ass defense attorney and that lame ass judge:

-“How come you let him sleep in the same bed with you?’

-“Was it raining so hard outside that you HAD to stay over his parents’ house?”

-“You had a couple of drinks that night, how do you know you said no?”

-“You let him kiss you and fondle your breasts, you must’ve wanted it.”

-“You’re doing this to get back at him for breaking up with you.”

-“How come you didn’t yell or leave the house?”

-“He’s a very educated man with a career, why are you trying to mess up his life?”

-“He’s never been in trouble before, why can’t you give him a break?”

Well, that was during trial number one, trial number two is coming up and further humiliation must be tolerated.

It’s a shame that we must all face some sort of humiliation and doubt from people. I still feel so much guilt. One thing that I would change would be I would’ve gone home rather than spend the night with him at his parents’ house. I would’ve driven home in the storm even if it meant getting into an accident…this hurts even more than that.

(((((Hugs to all of you who’ve gone or are going through similar experiences)))))))

Love,

Little Sunshine

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why is it that so many of us who suffered through childhood abuse are victimized again? not just in the sense of not being believed (thankfully you were, Little Sunshine), but in the actual physical sense???  Since my brothers nad their friends i have fought off three would-be rapists.  Okay do i have some neon sign on my head???  grrrrrr

Kelly

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(((((Sunshine)))))) you are so strong, sweetheart; I wish I could hammer out the anwers I would lke to give.

Let him take advantage of you? Gaaahhhd! And if only our accusers could know how much we go over in our own minds, "if only I had not down this, that the other". But what it comes down to is that the perpetrator raped.

*Sigh* The Jews were also asked why they did not do more to avert their fate. They are also accused by weirdos and fringe loonies of lyoing. One could only imagine how that must feel.

One thing I've found helpful for countering it can be having a sense of humour once the pain has worn off a little. I mean really, some of the things we hear are truly ridiculous.

Love

Lou xxxxx

PS. (((((Elle)))))....hearing these things hurts....but it is possible to grow stronger through them, hon. However, I think you've been wise to exercise some caution artound those you fear will give you such responses.

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((((Lou))))

and everyone else ((((((hugs))))))

I almost started crying as I read these posts and I never cry.  This is a really hard one for me.  I was abused sexually, spiritually and verbally by my therapist for 4 years in college, and after the word got out on campus, he managed to convince everyone (as far as I know) that I was delusional and had made the whole thing up.  I didn't talk to everybody, but from what I heard, I was considered to be some psychotic, attention-starved college kid who was trying to bring down this wonderful man on campus who had been director of the counseling services for 20 years.

It's been 7 years since that whole scandal, and it still hurts like it happened yesterday.  The hardest part was that the faculty members and other people who I trusted and thought knew me apparently thought I was either delusional or a liar.  It's about the most painful experience I've ever lived through, and that's considering I've had a whole childhood full of abuse.

I also have wounds from my parents who act like nothing all that bad happened to me when I was growing up, even though my brother viciously abused me physically and verbally for most of my childhood, and I was sexually abused and raped by a next-door neighbor who babysat me.  They know about all this stuff, but act like it's nothing, which hurts more than I can say.

It helps a little that my counselor believes me and feels for me and cries over this for me (since I can't seem to cry).  But still, there are all these huge gaping wounds in me from the way nearly everybody I've ever known as reacted to the abuse I've gone through.

I wish I had some advice, but I'm in a bad place at that moment.

Thanks so much for this thread Lou.  It helps to know I'm not alone with this.

Love to you all,

Christine

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(((((Christine))))

I am so sorry that you are having a hard time right now.  Like you, I simply cannot cry for myself.  I can cry for just about anyone else, but not for me.  Maybe one day, huh?

Kelly

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i just wanted to say that this is one of my huge problems and i dont know how to deal with it i just still feel it is my fault and maybe i am lying but then why everytime i see an older guy with little kids do i think, oh that is not right. i just thought that today and i had to remind myself that not everyone is bad like that.

the person who most accused me of lying was my ex and he kept saying if it really happened then i would have told.

finally i couldn't talk about it anymore.

until just before we broke up he started to bring my rape up and i told him to not even go there and he flipped out yelling and screaming at me and told me to say i was sorry which i was just dumbfounded right there, thinkign what in the world did i do that needs apologizing so instead he took me home, tried to call me from a pay phone up the road and ask me to come back with him, i just calmly said no.

but its a very tiring problem with me, why do i have to blame myself???? why cant it all just be over, im too tired to go on.

sorry i'll shut up now.

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music is my way of relating to the world around me..and after reading these posts, I'm reminded of a song, "Before You Were Born" by Toad the Wet Sprocket....

"Goddamn the wounds that show how deep a word can cut."  

No one seems to realize that a word, a single word such as "Liar" or "Bitch" can hurt far worse than any slap or punch.  I know it's true for me.  I was recently accused of lying and I #### near lost my head.  I was a raving lunatic.  I said call me crazy, call me stupid, but don't you ever dare to call me a liar.  I do not lie.  I cannot lie because I'm terrible at it.  I know the cost of lying.  I know the pain it causes.  It's just not worth it to me.  My brother, my abuser, lies so naturally he doesn't know the truth any more.  He lies just cos he can.

Ugh..I'm sorry, the more I think about being called a liar (and I'm referring to all of us) it drives me batty.  Man...I'm really pissed here.  My mom was abused physically, emotionally, verbally and I think sexually.  My grandmother was abused verbally and psychologically (she was told that she killed her baby sister).  I dont get how ...how people can accuse someone of making this up.  Okay, If I'm gonna lie, it'll be about that dress you're wearing, not about my past.

But recently..mom and i were talking.  she said she wishes she could go back and be in her twenties again.  I said, without thinking, that i wish i oculd be a little kid again.  With sorrow in her voice she said "No you don't. You had such a horrible childhood." For her to admit that stunned me.  I don't shut up easily, but she got me there :)

"Just do your best, do everything you can and don't you worry 'bout what their bitter hearts are gonna say.  It just takes some time, little girl, you're in the middle of the ride.  Everything, everything will be just fine, everything, everything will be all right."  The Middle by Jimmy Eat World.

I'm no more a liar than any of you here :)

Kelly

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**T**  language.

Things I heard from friends after the fact:

"You shouldn't have gone off alone."

"Why didn't you scream or fight back?" - I was in shock!

"You must have been giving off the wrong signals." - yeah, I must have had my sign that said 'rape me' pinned to my shirt that day.

"Let's look at this as a learning experience." - I suppose I  needed to learn not to provoke attacks by going off alone and getting undressed in a change room.

"Now you'll know for next time what to do differently" - excuse me?  Next time?  WTF?

My Family (although they've been really good about most of this stuff, sometimes even they can slip a little):

"Stop thinking about it.  It happened.  It's over.  Get on with your life." - I really wish I could you know.

"It wasn't really rape, you know." - maybe not by our country's definition.  But from what I've gathered, in most States, it was rape.

The police:

"There's no evidence on the video tape.  You must have imagined it." - damned liars.  I still can't believe they lied to me.

How to deal?  That's a toughie.  Of course there's tons of support here at Pandy's :)

Plus my family, for the most part, have been real good about supporting me so I guess it's not that bad on my end of things.  I'm sorry you're dealing with this now Lou.  You know you have my support and sincerest hope that one day, the blame will be placed squarely where it belongs:  ON THE RAPIST.

Cherry

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ok (((((((Lou))))))), this is so hard but i'm gonna try it,

i wanna do this

my mom said:

-i don't believe you, you've been reading too much books over things like that,it's all in your head,

when i became really depressed she said stuff like:

-why are you making yourself so sick?

-when are you gonna start acting normal?

now years later, she still says those things to me

my best friend at the time said after i told her about my first *r*:

-oh, i thought it was much worse

-she admidded a little while ago that there were times she didn't believe me at all

and now a little while ago she said:

-are you still dealing with that, just get over it

-if he ever comes near me, i hurt him so bad he can't even touich me.....makes me feel soooo small & guilty

the kids in highschool (knew after i tried to kill myself:gossip):

-i was looking for attention

-i was a slut

-i was always looking for trouble and loved trouble

-i wanted pitty from anyone (I HATE PITTY)

-i must have liked it otherwise it wouldn't happen that often

one therapist said she wasn't sure if i was telling the truth cause i couldn't really talk about it

one person i trusted said she wanted to believe me but couldn't

when i broke up with my boyfriend he wouldn't let me go, said i was the love of his life. i loved him too so i told him about all the r**es and from then he wouldn't have anything to do with me anymore.

when i went to the doctor for a declaration of physical violance she first didn't wanna make one cause she knew i cut myself, but this was about bruises from 25cm on 20 cm. and bruised ribbs, i spend 20min convincing her that he had hurt me again

the police won't believe me, cause i can't tell the real name of the guy even though i went out with him for 5 months. i called them a few days ago to ask for help cause my ex had threatened to r**e me again but they said to me that they couldn't do anything yet, and they added "liesel, you should know that by now"

shit this makes me feel sooooo sad, why do they don't believe me, i wish i couldn't believe it myself. there were times i really thought it was all in my head cos everyone said so...but the pain is much too real

when someone says those things to me i tell them in their face that i don't care what they believe, that i know the truth and that that's what counts...but that's just to show them i'm 'strong'...it kills me to hear those people say that and the pain...the pain hurts too bad to carry it alone...an impossible thing to do.

love and srength to you all

liesel

lou thanx for this post, really makes me think...thanx girl

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Wow.... ((((all))))

I'm in awe of all of you.. who have posted here and have endured so much undeserved and unnecessary violation. You are all brave, all strong, and all worthy of treatment so much better than you have experienced.

Lou, you know, I think one of the best ways to deal with revictimization like this is to do as you've encouraged us to - to wait until the hurt is a little less severe, and to vent... to tell what people have done to us... and experience the healing that comes when others "like us" read and share and offer support.

***Trigger cause I may have a potty mouth... and other content****

That said... I've heard a few doozies. I was very, very lucky to live with a group of young women at the time of my rape that treated me with the utmost compassion - from offering me a place in their room to sleep, so i wouldn't have to be where it happened, to tracking down the bastard at a hotel and grabbing his license plate number, should I ever choose to prosecute.

Others weren't so kind.

It took me over a year to tell my mom. Her response? Just what I expected. "Where you a virgin? Why can't you just make this go away?"

I had a friend tell me a year later that I needed to get past it. As if it were that easy. She was the friend there with me that night - who left me to go home with his buddy, leaving me without a drive... and a little more vulnerable.

Someone I thought was a good friend decided that since I didn't want to tell the whole world or prosecute, I was making it up - that I was making, as someone else has heard, "a mountain out a molehill". I will never, ever forgive his insensitiveness.

The police officer who heard my complaint told me that because I let him into my room and gave him my phone number, I didn't really have a complaint. Excuse me? He weighed more than 100 pounds more than me, had a friend with him, and he'd just finished raping me? I was going to refuse him something? Come on.

Finally.. an exercise I am capable of doing now that the pain is a bit less... Many of you have seen what Carolyn Flores is doing to others - now it's my turn to refute her "claims" here...

"She surely would have had the option of working with a different officer, or of making a complaint about the "bad cop" to the head of the department"  -  Afraid not. I wanted to, as did the trauma counselor who attended the meeting with me, but the department refuses to accept these complaints.

"That she herself "lacked confidence in what happened" raises the possibility that the "rape" was merely consensual sex that she subsequently regretted"  -  How many of us walk around thinking that we will one day be raped? Does the fact that I took an immediate scalding shower, did laundry at 4 a.m. to wash out all of the bloodstains, scrubbed blood out of my carpet, and was found shaking and in tears and hour later on the phone with one of my closest friends long distance resemble the behaviour of someone who just finished having "consensual" sex? Good god woman.. get your inflated head out of your ass.

"Not only did Brianna fail to make the report of rape in a timely manner, her first report of the rape was made to the hospital"  -  Actually, if she knew the whole story, she'd know my first complaint was made just a couple of days later, when I finally conceded to leave the apartment and let a friend walk me to the student counseling services where I received a session of rape trauma counseling.

"That she may have ended up not liking what occurred does not excuse the fact that she allowed it to occur. Nor does the fact that she may have experienced bleeding if she was a virgin. "  -  Okay.. this.. my friends.. is utter, utter bullsh*t. Number one - God, I can't even respond to the first sentence. It's so ridiculous, absurd, and ignorant that it doesn't deserve the effort of typing in a response. The second part - ah, yes.. most virgins spend a fucking WEEK bleeding after their first experience of sex.. most of them cannot sit for DAYS.. most of them have an incredible bloodstain on their floor that will never be entirely removed.. yes... consensual all the way.

You know.. she accuses me of being a liar... of "liking" it.. but I think she's the liar... I mean, come on... liking it? She's the one who married a fucking two-time rapist... She married a man who runs contrary to all of her stats and claims. As a close friend pointed out to me - She couldn't even marry a good piece of scum.. she had to choose someone rated a disastor by even her own standards.

God.. feels so good to give out a bit of what I've had to take...

Damnit... I WAS RAPED, I SURVIVED, AND I AM GOING TO FIGHT!

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Okay as i know this is a big *T* for me even just thinking about what ppl said to me i am gonna type it real fast and just hit send.

*****T******* Sewer mouth

My best friend at the time said:

"That i deserved it"

"That i was a slut and a whore bitch" (my first time, hows that for friendship?

"That if it happend again i still deserved it all"

"That it was my fault that i got pregnant"

"That i was a liar, and it was just sex"

"That if i was preg i wouldnt have drank and drugged it away"

(FUCKING BITCH...grrr...)

My other friends said.....

"Hmm maybe your right *friends name*"

They believed i deserved it too, i remember hearing a mutual friend tell another friend that he would like to do the same exact thing to me because i was easy? Yea ok.

My Brother said...

Quoted, cause i cant forget it and when i look at him or hear his voice it will ALWAYS be the very first thing i think about.."You arent nothing but a slut, you hear me a slut...coem on whore.."

Well those were fighting words because i gave him a real good blackeye for it afte ri tackled him.....

Okay its out and i am ducking out of this thread now.

Excellent thread Lou as always.....((((((Hugs to all))))))

Love Donnie =)

(Edited by dreamerNdisguiz at 10:07 pm on Jan. 29, 2002)

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Lou,

What a wonderful thread.

Although none of those painful words were spoken to me, others were.  A couple of close friends ignorantly told me that they had had friends who had been raped, but that these women's experiences had been "much more violent."

As if that made a fucking difference to me.

Grrr..

Love,

Jes

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(((((((((hugs)))))))))) and love for everyone

*trigger*

When I was a little girl one of my dad's girlfrieds who was very addicted to drugs and an alcoholic, and she was a very very not nice person she knew what my dad was doing to me and she called me a whore told me it was my fault. I was pretty young 4 or 5 I will never forget that though..I remember wondering what the word "whore" meant from the way she said it I knew it was bad but that was all I knew. I don't hate my dad but I hate her.  :( grrrrrr

I'm still tryig to deal with it.  I'm just really really angry.

Michelle

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This thread made me feel so raw last night that I went into hiding in my bed...

Yet now this morning I come back to it...

Silly me... of course it still makes me feel raw...

So I'm sorry, I can't really type much more, it's not that I don't want to share, this just hurts too much

Els.

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 Yep Yep ... know how it feels once it's out.  My parents knew about what happened when I was younger.  It was always lovely to feel like I was nothing but garbage from the two people who are supposed to love me.  (Gotta love the dripping sarcasm.)  Because of their treatment of me the first time, I never told them the 2nd time nor do I plan on it anytime in the future.  THis is part of the reason I live approx 750 miles away or approx 14 hr drive.  

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((((((LOU))))))))

Great thread hun and is veyr true, I wil try to respond at a later date ;)

(((((WARM SAFE HUGS)))))) to all fam

love always

Lil Tiger

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