Louise

"You're Lying" - Terrible Secondary Wound

108 posts in this topic

great thread (((lou)))

"Your making that up to make yourself feel better"
"You've got to put these things out of your head"
"You said nothing that's just as bad" (as saying yes)
"Did you think about calling the police" (IT was the way in which this was said - as if to say if I was telling the truth I would have called the police)
"Rape is a strong word - he pressurised you into having sex"
"You have to take responsability for the things you initiated"
"You gave yourself to him"
a therapist would only ever call it "unexpected sex"
"you have to let it go"
a therapists report - "She refuses to take responsability for having sex so instead has decided that it is not her fault"
"that never happened"
" I would have liked to have seen a bit more struggle"
"Either he raped you or he didn't"
"I always worry about the boys being faulsly accused of that" (my mum's first response)
"It doesn't matter - it is up to you to forget about it"

There are loads more but you get the idea - they hurt so much - secondary wounding is a good term for it - sometimes I feel that the reaction I got from ppl hurts just as much as what happened.  Thanks for startingthis thread it feels good to write those  things down.

Kiera

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I think one of the most hurtful things was when my therapist said "did you cut yourself" ... while it was his knife that had  put those cuts on my face and hands...

Els

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((((((((((Friends))))))))))))))

I ache for what you have heard; things which validated anything but your pain. I believe you.

Love

Lou xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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thank you lou, once again I bow down in awe of your posting prowess.

I was brave enough to talk about the r*** - but some people doubted me or tried to say I was making it up.  As for my childhood abuse - I've never told anyone, apart from the pandy's family, and I think part of that is cos I'm scared of secondary wounds....after all the stuff, it would be the last thing I need.

But hopefully, after a bit more time on pandy's (dutch courage?) I'll feel safe enough to tell all.

Loads of love,
Rose

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My head is full of things I'd have to say on this topic, but I'll need to sort my thoughts a little before I can post them...anyway there's something I have to share right now.

*************
please be careful, I don't know where my rant will lead me
*************

I had decided never to tell my parents about my rape, not because I was afraid they would not believe me, but because I felt it was the best...for me and for them...
But in November (more than 4 years after it happened) I was going through the most difficult time in my healing and I could not not hide my depression and sleeping probs anymore.
My parents were aware that something was wrong with me, and after hours of questioning I finally told my Ma...

I was prepared that she would  be shocked and hurt, I knew that I would be ashamed...I did not expect nor want any support...but I had NEVER imagined that she would not believe me...

I only asked her what kind of person she thinks I am for inventing something like that, and that was the last word ever spoken on that subject.

I had to spend the rest of the weekend there, and it was awful...when I finally got home I spent the whole evening crying in chat rooms and with my best friend who came over...it just hurt so much...

But I got over that pain very soon, and I dare say that this experience, as painful as it was at the beginning, was a good one for me.

I always felt I owed my parents an excuse or at least an explanation for all the pain I had caused them in the aftermath...now I have done all I could...more than I ever wanted...and if they refuse to understand, well, then it's their problem and not mine.

And a very positive side effect of all this is that I do not care anymore about what others will think when they know about my rape. I know what happened, I know how it feels to live with this crap...and I am not ashamed anymore of being a survivor! I even feel proud for having come so far...and I finaly dared *jumps up and down* submitting my real name for The Wall on Lis' site Escaping Hades :o)

My best friend who was the only one who knew my "secret" recently told me that he had talked about it with others because he could not deal with this alone and it really felt okay.

I am no longer a prisoner of shame and silence...I am free...and I do not care how much hurt was needed for this liberation...I guess every step forwards involves pain.
And for me my parent's reaction has brought me a lot further in healing.

I know that this may be much different for others, and I know that at another time I would perhaps have felt different about it, too.
I remember how important validation was for me, how much I have been disappointed when I tried to explain to some ex-boyfriends why I had difficulties, I was horribly afraid how my best friend would react when I told him this summer and at this time it was really important that he reacted in the way I needed...
It is so easy to be wounded by a wrong word in the wrong place...

I think the final turn in my feelings came when I talked to someone in a chat room (he's a rape survivor and a father of 2 kids, and he's been like a father to me in some really difficult situations) who, when i described my father's reaction, said "he deserves not to be called a man...and much less a father"
Of course that is quite hard, and I do not agree with this statement, but this released my anger...btw a short time after that I was finally able to feel anger and hatred for my abusers, too...as if one of the many closed doors around me were finally opened...

I have grown since that day where I felt like a little girl in tears, ashamed, hurt and disappointed, who had been called a liar when taking the difficult step of admitting she had been raped.

I have realized that it's me and my feelings who matter, and nobody who does not understand me will stand in my way to healing...it's my life, and I have proved many times in all these years that I can take my life in my own hands and go on...alone if I must.
And it really feels good to see that now :o)

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(((Artemis)))

Thanks for your post.. your courage can't help but be contagious, and has provided a much needed pick-me-up for me.

Anna

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#Moderation Mode

[url="http://www.welcometobarbados.org/CGI-BIN/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=9&topic=30"]Moved here[/url]

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I was wondering if you could direct me to where I might find the study by David Finklehor & Kirsti Yllo?  I was also raped by a partner and have had the most difficult time with healing.  It seems like therapist deal much better with rape by strangers than by husbands or partners.  Please email me at abeiling@ibcusa.com with the information for this study.  It sounds like it may be helpful.  Thanks so much!

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I'm boosting this because...just because....

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(((((hugs to everyone)))))

Francesca,
Thanks for boosting this.  This is something that's been on my mind lately.  As anybody who's read my post knows, I'm preparing myself to dive into the unknown & tell my wonderful, loving boyfriend about my past.  I know in my heart, he will respond well & be supportive, but the thought of telling him brings to mind past experiences.  I never told anyone except one person, but my mom found out when she snooped in my room & found a letter to my best friend, the only person I had talked to about it. My mom was depressed, guilt-ridded, etc., etc., etc. & just had to talk about it...with everyone.  At least she believed me about what my brother had done.  This is what I got from other people:

**Read at your own risk.  Previewing this, I was nearly appalled at how often I used the F word.  I apologize.  My BF is a cop & an ex-Marine.  Since being with him, I've learned words I didn't know existed! I was totally sweet & innocent before. ;)  However, I refused to change the post, because this is the way I feel, F word & all.  ESPECIALLY the F word...

"Why didn't you fight harder?"  Because I mentally shut down, you moron.

"Why did you let him do it over & over again?"  Because he choked me & held a knife to my throat.  Pretty persuasive, huh?

"He had a bad childhood, living with his real mother."  Oh, so that gives him the right to make mine miserable?

"It's not really his fault."  WHAT THE FUCK?  Who's fucking fault is it, then?

And from my wonderful sister, who used to be one of my best friends & whom I now haven't talked to in 8 years:

First, she asked if there was penetration, or if he had just felt me up.  I said that yes, there was penetration.  She said she didn't believe me at first.  Then she said that she believed me might've touched me & stuff, but she thought I was lying about the rest, so it really wasn't that bad.  WTF?  Then, she proceeded to tell me it was my fault even if it had happened.  Like, what the #### is her problem?  Why the fuck would she believe about the touching & not the rest?  What sense does that even make?  And how can it not be that bad?  Whether he touched my breasts a couple of times or whether he forced me to have sex, what does it matter?!?!  I DIDN'T WANT IT!!!!  Doesn't that make it wrong?  Thanks so much, sis, I always thought it was wrong for a brother to touch his sister, but now I know that it's really OK, just so long as said brother doesn't force the sister into sex.  'Cause that would be really damaging!  Once again (I just feel the need to say this; sorry for the language) WHAT THE FUCK?!?!  She really covered all her bases, didn't she?  It didn't really happen, but just in case I can somehow prove it did, it was my fault anyway.  What fucking logic.

Sorry about rant, but that did help!  Unfortunately, I was not emotionally prepared to deal with the rejection (like I said, these people didn't know as a result of hearing it from me), so I pretty much just withdrew a little more, which didn't seem possible.  Above are the responses I'd give now, along with the fact that I'd tell my sister to pull her head out of her ass!

Thanks again, Francesca, for boosting this.  You may not have known why you were doing it, but it sure helped me get some frustration out. ~Thanks~

Cira  

 

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(((((Lou)))))

I've had particular problems and issues (that is the mother of all understatements) with some family and friends I have told. Their perception was that I remained in an unhealthy relationship with a person that had done horrible things to me in the past, that I had been warned to get out and those warnings were ignored, thus it wasn't really rape but my putting up with more of the same.  It's so f*cking draining to understand how they view my being r*ped violently at knifepoint a month after my leaving, after hours at my place of employment, as "putting up" with "more of the same".  For the life of me I can not and do not want to wrap my mind around that beyond-warped f*cking logic!

The other lovely response I have gotten a few times too often is that because I didn't report it then it must not have happened the way I said it did. That somehow because I had previously been involved with this bastard that there had to have been some element of consent because it had been consensual in the past, you know?  It wasn't really r*pe because I had been intimate with him for years, that because I once loved him that it could not be "r*pe".  Lisa, what's wrong with you, don't you know that r*pe is something that ONLY happens in dark, back alleys by strangers?  That was written fececiously, although too #### often implied - the following is too #### real:  "This is not and would never really be classified as r*pe".  Lisa's mind speaks silently:  "Well, ####!  That's a f*cking load off of my already guilty shoulders for not having reported it!  Perhaps I should just report the fact that he was armed with a knife and beat the living shit out of me - we'll just forget the r*pe and sexual assault!"  WTF!

And then on to how I have replied.  Much of what was said was said at a time when I was in a very weakened state of mind and my response was equally weakened.  "You don't understand ~ you will never understand ~ you weren't there, don't tell me what it was or wasn't".  The challenge I found was that the more I would try to defend myself the more ridicule I was subjected to so I began to really shut down - completely.  It was a long time before I would open up to anyone other than my best friend (I don't know what the #### I would have done if I didn't have him).  

I'm feeling beyond pissed off and so #### drained just from having to think about what we survivors of the "mother of all pain" have had to endure, you know?  Not just the r*pe itself, but that secondary wounding that occurs - that wounding from those who allegedly love and care about us.  Those loving, well-meaning, open-minded, "will be there for you not matter what" family and friends.  I think I quote Em here when I say "fuck that for a game of soldiers".  

Love,
Lisa    

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***might T***

I get 'the look' a lot. That look of 'Yeah, uh huh, sure, right....' only because of one reason. I didn't report it. Technically...I think I could have won in court, but I just didn't WANT to deal with any of it and their were other reasons, but honestly...I didn't want everyone being able to look at me and what happened and make judgements about me. I was humiliated and I just didn't know what to do. My T told me that since i didn't talk about it I must be okay with it. I couldn't believe that crap. I am NOT okay with it. Just because I don't go around talking about it every second...just because I don't wallow in self pity...just because I can make love with my boyfriend...just because I can watch a show or movie and laugh...just because I don't panic every time I see a man....does NOT mean I'm okay with it. It just means I'm not controlled by it 24/7. I'm tired of being told I'm not upset enough or hurt enough or scared enough! Well f*ck all those people! They don't know what is going on in my head! They don't know that deep down I AM terrified sometimes. I'm just sick of all of the crap. *I* didn't do anything wrong. Nobody deserves the sick sh*t that was forced upon me. Nobody...

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(((((((Cira)))))))

I'm appalled that somebody you trusted minimized it - sexual violence, as you know, is not 'only' anything - it's a life-changing thing.

(((((Fran)))))) It's a sad mistake that people assume that because somebody's pain isn't worn on her sleeve, she can't be too badly off. Perhaps thinking that way actually serves the people who think it!

T for explosive potty mouth venting


((((((Lisa))))) - How outraged and how sorry I am you were responded to the way you were, and how utterly well I identify.


As if having had a relationship with somebody somehow gives them the right to keep coming back for more whenever they've a mind to - for FUCK'S sweet sake. I also understand the shutting down that comes with repeated ridicule - it hardly seems worth it, does it, and I know I felt so isolated and lonely.

Sigh...((((((Lisa)))))), what was said to you, me and other women is what drives me to fanatical heights around addressing rape by past or present partners. Real rape in back alleys my fucking foot - it happens at the hands of vengeful prick exes who can't accept goodbye. And somehow, because we have had their penises inside us consensually, we are prevented right of complaint if that is forced - can't be 'that bad' can it?

I well recall being told, like you, that I'd put up with his crap before, so was it any wonder he thought he could do what he did when I ended it? HELLO?? I, and you, we got out sister because we didn't WANT anymore crap.

How dare anyone assume that having been his partner meant that you lost the right to your freedom and to your body, and to say that your rape hurt?

The statement that 'if it had [i]really[/i] happened that way you'd have reported it is the silliest fucking drivel I've ever heard.

Do you find that it helps now when people do accept it without needing to file it under the 'but he was your partner so it wasn't real' category? The company of people who believe me and do not belittle has certainly helped me heal that secondary wound, Lise.

I agree that it becomes too draining to  keep defending yourself, but guess what? You, Lisa do not have one fucking thing to justify to anybody. How I remember, and how I hated that mawkish, shameful sense that extra justification for my pain needed to be provided.

I'm sorry if this was a bit ranty or 'me-ish' since I realise it was about you - it makes my blood boil you were treated that way.

I don't know if you've had a look at my page on partner rape and secondary wounding, but here's the link for your possible interest: [url="http://pages.ivillage.com/boadicea66/aphroditewounded/id13.html

We"]http://pages.ivillage.com/boadice....p>We'll[/url] get there, hon. We'll make them wake up.

((((((Hugs))))) for your pain, sister. It really hurts when those you look to for support won't listen, won't hear you, won't acknowledge the danger you were in, but keep imposing their own ignorance.

Love

Lou xxxxx

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I've had some of those.

People who found out that I didn't want to (this includes some people who came into survivor chats a long time ago):
You're a f*ck*ng wh*r* you deserved it. -"no one deserves to be r*ped no matter who they are or what they've done, no one deserves that."
You wanted it you sl*t. -who wants to be r*ped, really?
Well you wanna have sex with me then? -um, no.
Why didn't you do anything about it then? -i did, that's what saying no is, dumb*ss.

Family:
You should have kept your legs crossed. -if it was the simple, I wouldn't have been r*ped, thanks mom.
Maybe you shouldn't have been drinking. -"drinking dose not imply concent", really thanks mom, you're real sweet... you should understand of all people....

Friends:
You must be really sexy if guys would do that to you. -erm... that really makes me feel special, honest....

(yeah, I wanted to reply to them like everybody else... that way I can say what I didn't get to say to their faces.... d*mn me)

I'm sure I don't have as many as most people... but that's because I try not to tell people... and the ones I tell, I mostly get positive responces (ie: telling pandy people).

-Tears

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Its funny this thread has come up for discussion tonight.
About six months ago i went through PTSD although i couldnt understand it at the time, i didnt sleep for days everytime i did sleep i kept having nightmares so bad i was told by neighbours that they could hear me screaming and shouting.

I was asked if i had been raped but i didnt understand at the time so i said no.

After about a month or so i was watchin tv i started to get flash backs.

Anyways what i mean to say is that my neighbours then started to react differently towards me, started banging my walls and shouting. (By the way my ex-boyfriends cousin is my neighbour :( and it ended badly between us a lot of animosity on his part).

Incidently i was raped the same time we split up by the person he claimed i was two timing him with.
Today i went to my moms and had dinner when i got back i saw a note posted through my letter box from the police saying my windows had been smashed in. :)

I smile because i to cannot cry having gone through ptsd and having all the peices of my csa and rapes fitted into the jigsaw puzzle of my life. I dont know i have been crying for the past 30 years not knowin what for. I always found i could cry at films and feel for others but never myself.

Anyway just trying to fill you in i am drinking a bottle of wine at the mo, so please bear with me.  You just couldnt make up what has been going on for me lately.

Anyway this neighbour has been living in this street longer than i have so i guess he knows afew people (dont worry yes i am going to the police tommorow to report him).

And they have been using this against me trying to get to me and wear me down. over the past six months can you believe it.

If it wasnt for the fact that i have began to peice my life together i would have probably gone under.

But i tried a suggestion of one of the threads the other day on thought field therapy and it has made me feel kinda immune to whats been going on so i apologise if i seem kinda distant or unfeeling.
Guess  it just goes with the terratory.

They have been going all out throwing bricks at my windows kicking our adjoining wall. He or they even wrote with a knife informer on my security door then smashed it a cou[ple of weeks ago, because i confronted him about the banging and called the police. He told me it must of been his tv ( what a cowardly sick bastard).

I'm sorry that we have to go through this i have also just started to tell a few people, and have received a mixed responce.  

but i couldnt control my ptsd so i really dont know what i could do to please them. Thats why i feel therre must be more to this than  meets the eye.  I feel like i'm being raped all over again, or viciously bullied for something out of my control.

I know my story sounds weird but believe me i have ommitted the really weird and discusting things that have happened this past six months like him leaving dog shit outside my windows he has a dog a rottwiller.

I thankfully have faced my true fears with the help of books and councelling and am just waiting for a brighter day.

Thinking of you all through these trying times.  

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I am much confused.  Thsi topic is definately been helpful.  I still haven't been able to read the whole thing, I have to leave for class soon.
But I was wondering about WHY DID I STAY WITH HIM? WHY DID I CONTINUE TO LET HIM? are there explanations for this?  I was with this guy for a year, and it was ####.  He manipulated me, and used his religion to make me pity him.  He said that the devil attacked him with lust because he was such a good person, and was a threat to the devil.  AFter he would do anything to me, He would weep adn start praying for forgiveness.  I always sympathized with him and felt sorry for him.  So I would actualyl tell him it was my fault too becasue I LET him. I used to be a nice person, I guess that was the fall, I don't know.  I'm really confused.  He doesn't think he did anything wrong because I LET him.  WHY DID I LET HIM!!!????  I HATE HIM.  I feel like I'm crazy, unstable, dangerously violent....my current boyfriend, he is so wonderful.  But I scare him, it's the worst feeling.

(Edited by AsukaB at 10:19 pm on Jan. 29, 2003)

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I was raped by a fellow resident of a "Christian discipleship home" (a fancy name for a longterm halfway house).  When I finally reported it, a month afterward, I got no support whatsoever from the staff appointed counselor I didn't get along with.  They made me confront him immediately with no support, just me and my (awful) counselor, him and his counselor, and the director.  I knew walking in there it was just me and God.  So I told my story very calmly and rationally without any help at all from anyone.  Here are the conclusions they came to:

1) He couldn't have done it.  After all, he was almost the most popular guy in the house, the handyman, and everyone liked him.  He would never do such a thing.

2) I wouldn't lie.  It just wasn't in me.

THEREFORE:

I had had a psychotic episode!!!

I am not kidding about all this.  Three psychologically trained adults decided I had had a psychotic episode.  They were going to force me to see their psychiatrist.  I refused.  I had my own psychiatrist from previous bouts of depression, and I said I would see him.  So I did, and of course he laughed about the whole thing.  HE knew I wasn't crazy.  

To be honest, all that was almost worse than the rape.  But I really believe that "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord".  I just behaved myself; he was eaten up inside with what he had done, and in a month he was gone.  Last I heard he was homeless.  I think he's been sufficiently punished.

Anyhow, that's my story.

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I can't believe I didn't post this before, but since the CSA has been on my mind a lot, what the #### - I will now.

I remember that after it was reported, my abuser's sister (my mom's "friend" ) called all of us kids liars - especially me, since I'm the one that eventually told my mom.  The bitch said I made it all up.  Yep, 6-year-olds generally DO make up stories about being fondled.  For fuck's sake, I was SIX.  It's not like I knew anything about that stuff before a certain piece of human garbage decided I needed to know.

(Here's a silent fuck you to her)

~Lynn

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((((((((((((((Lynn))))))))))))))

I'm so sorry love, for you and your little six-year-old. You know this is the shit that really just sickens me to the literal point of nausea.  Can I echo that silent fuck you to this ignorant piece of shit?  It's really necessary and long overdue. 

I love you, sweetie
Alesia

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i am only 13.. I told that i was raped the day after it happend i am a very strong individual but what people said was horrible I have absouloutly no friends..even the teachers harrass me they say i lie.. WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD I LIE ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT! i get called a whore i get hit the after math was almost worse than the rape.. sometimes i wonder would it have been better if i hadnt told anyone

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For the last day or two I've been thinking that I should 'come out' about what happened to me and just tell everyone. I am at a very small college where everyone knows everyone; there are probably 50-60 women here and I don't know of any others who have been subjected to sexual violence. But some of them MUST have been and it's so frustrating to think that we're all too embarrassed to talk about it. I'm finding it very hard to stay silent, especially when I hear supposedly intelligent men, who are friends of mine, make frankly disgusting comments about women, and discuss them like they're dolls or something. Now I'm pretty sure I'm not going to say anything because I am struggling as it is at the moment and to hear comments like the ones I've read here would finish me off. It makes me very, very sad though.

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Rachel you need to tell someone remember this no matter what happens after it is better than never telling at all... tell a close friend or maybe even a teacher... but YOU NEED TO TELL SOMEONE! stay strong girl

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(Edited by Saphirejd54 at 12:03 am on July 11, 2003)

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** trigger for religion **

I am responding to the posting on rude an ignorant questions and comments or attitudes on the part of others that you know or in the community.  This, as well as the fact of being unable to locate a decent therapist in these parts, has been my biggest obstacle to healing.

Many negative responses have come.  Men in the community act like I must have liked it and treat me like a piece of meat and a whore.  I give them disparaging looks or roll my eyes up and walk away or look in another direction (men hate being ignored.)  One guy today just turned and looked at me fully (I didn't know him) like I must be available and cheap.  I replied, "Sorry, Charlie..." I have no problem  putting men like that in their place, because first of all they are hypocrites.  They are putting me down and trying to use me because to them I am a whore (when I'm not a whore,)yet at the same time they are being male whores, in wanting to do it with whomever they see that might be handy.  Also they are going by what they thought they saw or what they might have heard about me, rather than finding out the facts, and that is truly ignorant.

I called a friend and told her I was raped.  This person has been through alot so I figured she would understand something like this.  Wrong!  She ridiculed indirectly, changing the subject to something innane and then her daughter got on the extension and began making mouth noise into the phone, at which point they both kind-of laughed.  I said I had to go and hung up and never spoke to her again.  I never plan to speak to her again.  If she can insult me like that, she doesnt deserve to talk to me.

Many of the other students at the school I was attending -- a college -- seemed to believe the rapists who went around bragging about what they did and telling everyone I was a slut and deserved it (I am really a slut when I havent had sex in 13 or so years because I am saving myself for my husband.)  Fortunately, the man I am going to marry doesn't believe them. I talked to him and told him they were just jealous because they couldnt have me and are trying to break us up and he believes me over them.  However, for the remainder of the term (it was too far into the semester to drop my classes,) I had to tolerate the ignorant whispers, laughter and rudeness of other students convinced that I 'asked for it.'  It was almost unbearable.  On the bus on the way to school, demented boys would stare and make cheap passes at me and try to intimidate me.  Sounds like high school, huh?  

If I tried to befriend anyone, one of them would tell her lies about me and she'd start to avoid me and act like there was something wrong with me when I was around her.  One girl who I took notes for, who sat directly behind me in one of my classes, and who I was kind-of friendly with began to act that way, but she changed her mind when she accidentally dicovered I was a Christian because of comments I made about Halloween costumes and it being a Satanic holiday.  She looked at me very thoughtfully for a minute and was ok with me from then on, figuring out that the rumors were untrue. She even went so far as to openly defy everyone else and study with me  out in the open in the cafeteria.  When I asked her if she wasnt worried about what someone would say, seeing her with me, she replied, "I don't care.  I like studying with my friends."  I thanked her for her courage of conviction, and we continued studying.

I wrote to a friend in Dallas (an ex-pastor's wife) and confided to her about the rape, hoping for encouragement and support.  Rather than offering any kind of encouragement or support, though, she stopped writing to me, point-blank.  I figure, when you're down, you find out who your friends really are.

Some of the other students, to their credit, didnt change their behavior towards me at all; but they did act extremely curious about the incident, although they didnt question me directly.  One woman later apologized to me, when she began to mistreat me and I put her in her place, telling her I didn't appreciate her attitude and that I was just as good as her and she had no right to mistreat me like she was.  I then got up and changed seats on the bus,after telling her not to speak to me again.

I threatened to report a male student for sexual harrassment when he, before and after repeatedly hit on me knowing I did not want or appreciate his advances.  When I threatened to report him, he stopped.

I did report another male student for sexual harrassment when he began to badger me at the bus stop and wouldn't leave me alone.

I don't want to cut off all of my acquaintances, but I do believe, for me at least, the best way to handle 'friends' who mistreat you after you are sexually attacked is to stop being friends with them, or report them for sexual harrassment, if appropriate, or both.

I gave alot of people something to think about at that school, I assure you.  I got so tired of the mistreatment of so many of them at that school, after it happened, that I started to deliberately sit alone in the cafeteria and not associate with anyone, hoping they would get the point.    

 

       

       

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